For millionth time... Why is Kemper profiles so trebly/fizzy??

    I plug into my Bogner 100B amplifier, made in 1992, one of the first 100 that Reinhold made… I have made numerous direct profiles and I plug-in the same guitar, using the same 4×12 cabinets, old green back speakers, all the parts of the equation are equal and I am still 20% away from getting a realistic profile…


    The depth, low end tightness AND smoothness of the real amplifier cannot be recaptured, I have tried every single way possible, post studio EQ, Definition, clarity etc. etc. etc. etc.
    I have tried and tried but I can’t get there… It’s like really really really good quality cardboard compared to a piece of mahogany… It’s just not the same.


    Now, when I am out playing live, this machine is amazing! I am totally blown away by it through most PA systems and my inner ear monitors, it’s fantastic, but playing thru 4x12 cab, it is still 20% away from the real amplifier in my opinion…

    Quote from mnewse614

    Not exactly, I hear the kemper over exaggerates the high end but a high pass cut can help, what I can’t do is bring back the depth of the amp naturally

    Do you mean a low pass? A high pass allows higher frequencies to pass beyond a predetermined cutoff point and is generally positioned at the low end.

    Quote from SQUAREHEAD

    I plug into my Bogner 100B amplifier, made in 1992, one of the first 100 that Reinhold made… I have made numerous direct profiles and I plug-in the same guitar, using the same 4×12 cabinets, old green back speakers, all the parts of the equation are equal and I am still 20% away from getting a realistic profile…


    The depth, low end tightness AND smoothness of the real amplifier cannot be recaptured, I have tried every single way possible, post studio EQ, Definition, clarity etc. etc. etc. etc.
    I have tried and tried but I can’t get there… It’s like really really really good quality cardboard compared to a piece of mahogany… It’s just not the same.


    Now, when I am out playing live, this machine is amazing! I am totally blown away by it through most PA systems and my inner ear monitors, it’s fantastic, but playing thru 4x12 cab, it is still 20% away from the real amplifier in my opinion…

    I'd be interested in hearing a comparison if you have samples?

    Man that really sucks. You could start your own thread about direct profiling and maybe others would chime in to trouble shoot the situation and if that's not fruitful a support ticket might also be needed.


    From my recollection most of the issues with direct profiles can be related to the DI hardware used. Some of those DI's sometime have a speaker cabinet simulation button and if that's engaged, that can be the culprit. More common is also the DI has some Pads and in most cases you need to engage both pads for a 40db reduction as even as small five watt tube amp speaker out will need more than one pad to tame the volume feeding the DI input.


    i know many are using this feature using guitar cab with power amp with great success but the power amp can also be contributing to the problems. I highly recommend starting a thread where more members can get involved and more heads are better than one :D so hopefully problem can be resolved.

    I will hopefully soon have a YouTube video showing the DI profiling process and the outcome of it through exactly the same gear, guitar, 4×12 cabinet etc. etc. It will be studio quality sound with no edits…
    Hey Coldfrixion, nobody, NOBODY wants to love this thing more than me! I have spent hundreds of hours learning every possible thing I could, watching tutorials, reading everything on all kinds of different forums… Mostly here on this one…
    I have purchased four direct boxes, the last one being a countryman type 85, which is the best of the bunch, but unfortunately, I cannot capture the sound or feel of a real tube amplifier with a direct profile.
    I am 53 years old and have played boutique tube amplifiers for the last 25 years, I Absolutely love the KPA for live use, but even there, it’s about 85%… But it sure does beat carrying 4×12 cabinets and 60 pound amplifiers, effects racks, etc. etc. etc.

    To me the purpose of threads like this is to analyze the Kemper. There’s lots of artistic content elsewhere. Neither side negates the other. The only way to improve any product is to see a failing, which is another way of saying opportunity.


    This is no different to creative learning, you may struggle with yourself till you come to understanding, when your own critical facility improves and you can hear what you’re doing wrong and can see how to improve.


    These threads don’t stop me from being able to make music with the Kemper, but they do inform and educate me on what other people are listening out for in their own tone. They also help me pinpoint issues in tone that matter to me to try and be aware of and resolve ITB and to ignore issues elsewhere that don’t matter.


    It’s also important to remember that Kemper have fixed other issues in the past when they’ve been demonstrated such as the excessive bass issue in early profiles, the aliasing issue etc, these have impacted the sound of the Kemper for the better. So it has changed sound and we’ve all benefited. If these threads can be handled in a positive and helpful manner with the members posting working together to properly analyze and demonstrate a problem in an easily recreatable way then Kemper do listen and they do try to fix it.

    Well said :)

    Quote from MementoMori

    Which is a tad odd since the company line on the forum has long been that no profiling algorithm changes have occurred since its release. Early adopters have noted a low-end frequency correction in a very early update, but even this is officially disputed.


    The profiling process has changed once. See change log below for 2.7.0 public beta.


    Quote from Michael_dk

    Well said :)

    I call it selective reading with all due respect. When the Opening poster specifically said "Help me ?( " in the body of the post because he's confused, he's not looking for an explanation of why this happens and how anything can be fixed in the future. He's looking for help today because he's working on a current project. Reading the title of the thread is like concluding a book from its title.


    And to get back to the original poster @Cederick if he's still around , try a two notch filters at around 4k and 6k using the Kemper EQ.

    The reason why kemper profiling accuracy itself was brought up is because this could have been one cause contributing to Cederick’s issue. He himself said earlier in the thread he’d never found a single profile to sound the way he wanted.


    Then a video of real amp was posted (I’m not sure people realized it wasn’t a profile). And semantics come into play too in regards to what we mean by word A or B (including “fizz”). I’m not surprised a few posts came to be about profiling accuracy.


    Like I originally said I think Kemper can more or less do the tones he wants. Still going to be subtly more ts-like than source but this does not have to mean much in this context.

    Quote from Dean_R

    I call it selective reading with all due respect. When the Opening poster specifically said "Help me ?( " in the body of the post because he's confused, he's not looking for an explanation of why this happens and how anything can be fixed in the future. He's looking for help today because he's working on a current project. Reading the title of the thread is like concluding a book from its title.


    I took his "Help me out?!" within the context of the thread title, "Why is Kemper profiles so trebly/fizzy??", which implied he was asking for an explanation. He spent a good portion of his post describing the differences between his two samples. He discounted "mic positions and stuff" as a likely explanation, though that's probably the most reasonable explanation. Quite a few solutions were offered including EQ matching, however he was put off by EQ matching because he wanted something unique, but "not lacking in low-end like a lot of Kemper profiles do". Perhaps the best answer provided was that most Kemper profiles are created by hobbyists while the guitars heard on many commercial recordings are made by professionals.


    That said, it's easy enough to look at his sample in a DAW using a spectrum analyzer and pinpoint the precise areas that need attention, boosting / cutting accordingly.

    Quote from Dimi84

    Like I originally said I think Kemper can more or less do the tones he wants. Still going to be subtly more ts-like than source but this does not have to mean much in this context.


    I agree. In my opinion, the sonic differences between the samples Cedrick posted in the OP are much too great to be accounted for by profiling alone.

    Quote from MementoMori

    Per the interview posted on this thread with Christoph to their response to Dimi when he highlighted sonic differences (upon the many others who have broached profiling shortcomings this past year), the Kemper team doesn’t seem interested in altering the profiling algorithm at all. If they are working on improvements, they aren’t saying, but my bet is they are content with it as-is.

    Kemper has updated the method before and if they find a way to improve it I have no doubt they will. They are a company of very calculated moves, meaning they take a lot of time to vet an idea and do not announce their plans prior to finalizing. I also have no doubt that they are actively developing the tech.

    Their response to samples and feedback about these issues hasn’t really left the impression they feel it’s necessary.

    This may be true, but CK telling Dimi after all the tests he submitted that the issues brought forth aren’t the classic tones people want kinda strikes you as their not being as receptive. There’s a difference between being coy and polite dismissal.

    This is brilliant! I've been using an EQ stomp after the amp for some time now with stock cabs. Since switching to IR's, I've eliminated the low/high cuts in the EQ as the "fizz factor" is lower with the IR's. So I'm able to dial in a great clean tone without sacrificing the high-end in a lead tone. Using the ducking feature could fine tune that a little more so I can run it flat with no cuts for clean, and run it with a different EQ for leads.


    There are lots of ways to dial out the fizziness of a profile:
    - EQ after the amp model
    - Quality IR's
    - lower amp gain
    - lower tube bias
    - lower amp compression
    - lower clean and distortion sensitivity in the INPUT menu
    - keep "cab character" between -1 to +1


    In a lot of ways, the three amp controls above are interactive.


    I run a pedalboard for drives into the Kemper, and use the stereo loop for wet FX, so I don't use high gain profiles... mostly edge of breakup (clean on the neck pickup and just breaking up on the bridge pickup), but I do stack overdrives into the Kemper (a JHS Morning Glory and TS808 for leads) and have zero issues with fizziness with that setup. I can even add my Klon KTR to that and get some great '80's shred tones with no fizziness.