Real AMP has a fuller body than Kemper

Quote from SQUAREHEAD

Could you briefly explain your refining process? I sometimes think I am doing it wrong, should I be doing different refining depending on how much gain is being used?

Quote from DonPetersen

Refining isn't mandatory anymore.Chances are the Profile is spot-on without it.

That's exactly what HellG told me ! And I have to commit, that we didn't refine at all. The direct result of the profiling-process was completely sufficient. But -as said- the volume match must be very precise. I had to raise volume on the KPA pretty much to match the real amps volume, but then I couldn't differ between both sounds. Neither the "sound" nor the "haptic feeling" (i.e. attack, sustain, response) Both amps were really exact the same. It was very astonishing to me.

HellG had been so nice to bring a Palmer-"Two amps to one cabinet"-device along so that we could compare both amps through the same cabinet by a flick of a switch.

Quote from Awesome_Elvis

I wonder, has anyone tried moving the mic after profiling but before refining?

I tried raising the volume a little and you end up with a louder profile. I bet you that's how some of the unusually loud profiles are accomplished., I however think it messes up the profile.

Quote from Dean_R

I tried raising the volume a little and you end up with a louder profile. I bet you that's how some of the unusually loud profiles are accomplished., I however think it messes up the profile.

Which Volume?

Just to re-clarify, the master volume, the individual rig volume and the volume in the amplifier stack all do exactly the same thing, correct?
Or, does one affect the ‘tone’ more than others, or deteriorate,??
I was always under the impression that they all did the exact same thing in the exact same way with the exact same result…
Just checking to make sure…

Quote from SQUAREHEAD

Refining tightens the bottom end and makes it Feel more solid and less hollow and flubby… Refining also smooths out the top end just enough to sweeten it up…
This is just my experience though…

Snap! The modern bass heavy amps require refining just to get that low end right

Quote from SQUAREHEAD

Just to re-clarify, the master volume, the individual rig volume and the volume in the amplifier stack all do exactly the same thing, correct?
Or, does one affect the ‘tone’ more than others, or deteriorate,??
I was always under the impression that they all did the exact same thing in the exact same way with the exact same result…
Just checking to make sure…

They are all transparent but placed different in the chain and therefore react differently.

Quote from musicmad

They are all transparent but placed different in the chain and therefore react differently.

Quote from musicmad

They are all transparent but placed different in the chain and therefore react differently.

No!!! you got to be kidding me… OHhhh, now I have some more listening tests to do… I thought they were all the same and all reacted the same and that they were all in the same spot in the signal chain
At least, I remember someone telling me that on this forum… Oh well…

Quote from Awesome_Elvis

Which Volume?

The reference amp volume.

Quote from SQUAREHEAD

No!!! you got to be kidding me… OHhhh, now I have some more listening tests to do… I thought they were all the same and all reacted the same and that they were all in the same spot in the signal chain At least, I remember someone telling me that on this forum… Oh well…

They are transparent in nature but what happens when you make the loud volume louder with loud volume that is then, made louder by another Volume? In other words, it is, affected ,by it but it's not an "effect".

I usually give everything a little bit but haven't as much these days. Normally for the longest time I would turn the volume in the amp stack up a wee bit, then the preset volume on the right a little , then the master volume till the output flickers a little bit more than just green. Oh and a studio eq or just about an effect in the effects section, I would give the volume on that a +1 too. That, definitely adds some oomphf on the way out
Pretty clean for the most part, which could debated for, ever lol

Quote from Dean_R

The reference amp volume.

Like, on the actual amp or is there a reference volume in the kemper that can be turned up after profiling?

Quote from Awesome_Elvis

Like, on the actual amp or is there a reference volume in the kemper that can be turned up after profiling?

I'm feeding the Kemper the signal coming from an external mixer, so it would on the volume on the mixer and not in the Kemper.

Mars80000 please send us a recording that shows the difference between the two sounds along with a backup of your Profiler in an email to
[email protected]
The recording should be taken from one of the line outputs of the Profiler preferably by sending a DI track to the input of the Profiler.

Forgive me if this sounds ignorant, but wouldn't raising the volume of an amp bring the cabinet more into play (resonances), and therefore introduce more "body" / weight / bottom end to the resulting sound? My guess is that the larger the cabinet, the more this bottom end would become apparent.

I recorded some lead guitar through a friends MB rig (4x12) back in the '90s in the middle of the night with a dude sleeping in the next bedroom. I had no choice but to lower the volume to a softly-spoken level. It turned out to be the thinnest (least amount of bottom end) guitar sound I've ever recorded, and yet that was the meatiest-sounding rig I've ever laid a mic to. I joked about the lead sound for years afterwards, referring to it as the "mosquito lead", and with good reason.

As I said, forgive me please if this sounds ignorant, but it seems like a no-brainer explanation to me. The example I gave is an extreme situation, but hey, that's how I learn - by extrapolating things to the extreme in order to expose deficiencies / strengths or what have you.

Hey Mars,
Glad to hear that you are 99% there! That’s amazing… I wish I was, LOL
Did you notice a difference in tone with the EQ on? Even with everything set flat? As long as I have everything set at <0>, I don’t hear any difference at all with the EQ on versus off…
I will try out your profile tonight, thanks…

Quote from SQUAREHEAD

No!!! you got to be kidding me… OHhhh, now I have some more listening tests to do… I thought they were all the same and all reacted the same and that they were all in the same spot in the signal chain At least, I remember someone telling me that on this forum… Oh well…

They will sound exactly the same. Except for the volume in the amplifier stack, which may act differently if you place a non-linear effect in the Effects section.

Quote from mars8000

@SQUAREHEAD Yes, with EQ on "with flat settings", the tone changes, i have a very picky ear and i can tell the difference. When the EQ is tuned off, i had to add a studio EQ to lower the low freq and raise mid a little to come 99% close.

I’ll have to try this tomorrow ... I had no idea the eq set flat had any affect on the tone but it makes sense, if the eq stack is included in the signal I can see your point.
You have a picky ear and you have no problem with using the studio eq?
I don’t get that... it is detrimental to any profile I have ever tried it on, don’t like it at all.

Hmm, i still don't get why KPA lowers the mids after getting the finale profile. Is something that Kemper team aware of ? Any solutions for this besides increasing the MIDS from the EQ (tried that but they don't sound the same)?

Please don't ask me about recording, i've tried that and they sounded the same and not could tell which one is. But if you are at my location hearing the amp and KPA with your own ears, you can feel the difference .