Double tracking vs quad vs more? Is it only for sloppy players?

    Quote from waraba

    I also don't really care about maximizing the bass , as I think I use bass mainly to support a groove or a melody , not especially for impact ( Drums and guitars are my infantry & artillery troops ) .


    I guess it's just like cooking , I fount my own approach and solutions that work for me and make my style personal. That don't necessarily means everybody will like my french cuisine

    French cuisine? Just add more butter, mate. :D


    It's not about maximising the bass; it's maximising the headroom (available energy) for all the other instruments.


    What I'm suggesting is that your other mix elements will have a tiny-bit more room to breathe.


    Here's another (but the same) way of looking at it:


    If your bass level is 2dB higher in the left channel than it is on the right, you have 2dB less headroom to play with when adding other instruments to the left side of the mix.


    If you spread the bass evenly, you now have 1dB more headroom in the left channel and 1dB less on the right, but anything you add to any positions that involve the left speaker, even only a little, will have more room to occupy / breathe than they did before. More room to play with. More freedom.


    At 11 o'clock, as I suggested earlier, it's not a major issue IMHO, but the principle is sound(!), and the fact that bass frequencies are difficult for the brain to locate in space (panning... as well as pitch) means that nobody's really gonna hear the difference between 11 and 12 o'clock except you, 'cause you're mixing.

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    @warabathose tracks sound fabulous

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    He's got some talent, that boy.

    Thx you guys, I appreciate but I'm only an hobbyist musician & amateur mixer , I'm only talking about my single limited experience : no fancy studio , high end production and thousand $ production like some real engineers above.


    I read the last post with great interest Nicky , I'll experiment with headroom, but yes these factors are mostly subjective and all that matters is the final result being clean, punchy and sounding good enough.

    Quote from waraba

    Well I keep 12 for drums , I don't want kick snare and bass to overlap in the same frequencies. I really like clear mixes.

    To add to MonkeyMan's good comments (you may already know this, and especially the first part, which I just included as a basis for the rest of the text):


    The pan control is only a dual volume control with inverse relationship between the two sides. Like a "tilt volume".
    This means that when you pan, you're reducing volume on one side and adding volume on the other - that's all it does.


    So when you pan the bass to 11, you're (slightly) reducing the volume of the bass in the right speaker, which will make for instance the kick drum come just a bit forward in front of the bass on that side. Masking will still be present. It is essentially equal to increasing the volume of the kick slightly when considering this side. Conversely, on the left side, the kick will then be moved a bit BEHIND the bass for the very same reasons (volume wise). Again, any masking issues persist.


    I think if you strive for CLARITY, you're actually better off keeping both to the center, because it will be better at exposing any masking issues present, "forcing" you to take care of it up front.

    Quote from wwittman

    That is exactly the point.


    It’s a wank.


    You’re just making your mixes less clear and narrower for an imaginary ‘benefit’

    ok Guys, I'm definitely convinced about mixing basses @12 o clock as I wasn't called ' a wanker' since I was 11 year old ;)


    How do you EQ the kick vs the bass then ? I'd be happy to know a few tricks here

    Depends, Renaud.


    If you're Lee Ritenour doing Captain Fingers or Captain's journey, you might want Steve's kick to sit above Abe's bass.


    If you're in the more-common, "more-modern" camp and want the drums to really thump and drive the track, you may prefer to have the kick occupy everything (not counting the "click" component, which isn't high-energy) up to 50 or 60 Hz, and the bass sit above that.


    That said, I've not had a chance to experiment with this stuff for many a year, and would prefer and love to hear what Will has to say. I get the principles involved, but can only guess at possible crossover points frequency-wise.

    Quote from waraba

    ok Guys, I'm definitely convinced about mixing basses @12 o clock as I wasn't called ' a wanker' since I was 11 year old

    I was AFK and suddenly remembered your saying this, Renaud.


    I'm here to assure you, mate, that there's no need to feel bad. Will uses this expression to describe pan positioning near C as well as close to L or R 'cause he feels, and I agree, that the only real benefit is felt (not necessarily even heard!) by the individual doing the mixing and nobody else.


    IOW, he was describing the methodology, not you! 8o:thumbup:

    Quote from waraba

    How do you EQ the kick vs the bass then ? I'd be happy to know a few tricks here

    If you've only been panning the bass to 11 o clock, I suspect you don't need to do anything different than what you've already done :)


    In a nutshell, you need to find out where and how much the two instruments clash/mask each other - and then decide which instrument to cut something from. There's also the trick of using sidechain compression to duck the bass when the kick hits.

    I do like to use the same or similar mic types on bass amp and bass drum so that they live together in the same universe.


    They’re usually the ONLY places, on my records, where I use moving coil dynamic mics.


    That’s why I made my Kemper bass profiles with the same RE20 i am likely to use on bass drum.

    Quote from wwittman

    I do like to use the same or similar mic types on bass amp and bass drum so that they live together in the same universe.


    They’re usually the ONLY places, on my records, where I use moving coil dynamic mics.


    That’s why I made my Kemper bass profiles with the same RE20 i am likely to use on bass drum.


    That's interesting. You don't usually go DI for the bass, Will? Had a huge debate on a bass forum where everyone was saying that the best way to record bass was to go DI.

    Recording primarily the bass DI is the most common method among every studio guy I've chatted with. Most do also record a wet signal, but only use it for some extra tone sometimes.


    This seems to be favoured:


    DI bass track with no sound
    ├ (send, prefade) Lowpassed @ 350 Hz, and compressed to flatter than flat
    ├ (send, prefade) Highpass @ 500 Hz, sometimes lowpassed at 1-2 kHz, and then a crunchy distortion is applied
    └ [sometimes] (send, prefade) Highpass @ 1-2 kHz, and then a wide chorus is applied. Sometimes with a fuzzy heavy distortion before the chorus


    It creates a basstone that is thick and well defined, but still has some "action" from the higher distortion.


    The chorus in the highpassed signal is something I really enjoy too. It magically makes the bass really stand out without drowning anything out. One of my favourite tricks!


    Of course, you could replace the highpassed sends with the wet signal from an amp/kemper, which is also highpassed around 500 Hz.

    Vortech - Finnish Industrial Death Metal since 2000

    Like 1

    Obviously a straight-DI track lacks character and therefore usually needs a bit o' hair applied.


    Personally, I find there's no substitution for a mic'd setup (except for the Kemper of course), 'cause to my ears there's so much interesting stuff that happens in the mids, low mids and low end. I just don't get any mojo and that sense of "welly", as the Brits call it, from a straight-DI signal.


    So, I'd start with the amped signal (Kemper in my case), and mix the DI in for high-end definition (high-passed), but hey, that's just me.

    Quote from waraba

    Cool, I just figured this is the way I record my basses nowadays , using a Chandler preamp profile with no cab , lot easier to mix and has a distinctive clear quality.

    where di you get the Chandler Pre Amp profile? Is it the one from the Bert Meulendijk acoustic pack? I use that for my piezo equipped PRS and it really adds life to the sound.