Trying to recreate the Fender "amp in the room" clean in my bedroom

  • I need advices here. Another amp in the room thread...
    I'm a bedroom guitarist in an apartment with neighbors, chasing my favorite tone which is a simple Fender Clean .
    Most of the time i am using my Kemper trough headphones, which gives me a result i like.
    I have also Studio Monitors which are nice for listening to music, but don't gives me (obviously) the famous AITR feel. They are fun for playing with big ambient stereo effects, but i miss the nice, full, "3D", room filling Fender Clean.
    I can't just buy a real Fender Amp because even a small tube amp would be much too loud for my neighbors.
    I'm considering a few scenarios:

    - just buy a Fender 68 custom vibrochamp (10") and use it with the volume on the lowest values
    - buy a Fender 68 custom vibrochamp with an attenuator
    - buy a Fender 68 custom vibrochamp, profile it, then use only as a guitar cab for my kemper with a power amp.
    - buy an open back guitar cab and use it with my kemper with a power amp. Which cab ? Which speaker size ?
    - other scenario i haven't thought about ?
    - stay with my headphones and studios monitors and accept reality

    I must add, that i don't want to be able to practice at midnight with the cab, most of these practice time will still be done with my headphones, but i would like to be able to play one or two times in the middle of the week with some gorgeous amp sound without annoying my neighbors too much.

    Thank you.

  • I would say the Kemper Kone and Cab is a game changer in this department.

    I'm not just saying that as I'm selling one, but im sure others will agree.

    'You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead' - Stan Laurel

  • Thank you to both of you, but i would prefer an open back cabinet. I'm not interested in rock or high gain stuff.

    The Kabinet is not just for rock, it does clean and acoustics extremely well, plus it's like 12 cabs in one with the different speaker imprints you can use.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • Thank you to both of you, but i would prefer an open back cabinet. I'm not interested in rock or high gain stuff.

    Hello vjau75

    I was in the exactly same situation as you. I own a Kemper Kabinet but I also use tube amps sometimes. So I wanted to have "the Fender sound" for playing late at night.

    I installed a Kemper Kone in a Palmer 1x12" open back cabinet and I compared it with the Kemper Kabinet. For my taste the Kabinet did a better job.

    later I installed a Jensen C12Q in the Palmer 1x12" and I also compared it with the Kabinet.

    I also use a 2x12 closed back Marshall cabinet loaded with two Kones. I also compared it.

    My opinion (ranking - my taste):
    1. Marshall 2x12" with 2xKone (more low end and better "feel" also at very low volumes, Imprints work sooo well!!)

    2. Kemper Kabinet (Imprints work soooo well!! - soon I'll try 2 Kemper Kabinets together - check how it sounds in stereo)

    4. Palmer 1x12 with Kone (in my Opinion the Kone was not that great with open back, I also compared it with a 1x12 open back with V30)

    3. Palmer 1x12" with Jensen C12Q (sounds good but it's not versitaile... Kone sounds better at very low volumes)

    The Kemper Kabinet works very good for clean and breakup sounds even if it is a closed back. And you can also use it for any other style you might like in the future ;)

    btw. I practice sometimes after midnight with the Kone because it sounds good a very low volumes. I don't like to play guitar with earphones...

    never thought that I would like the Kemper that much...! 8|

    Edited once, last by silvioherrmann ().

  • The so called amp in the room sound is really about the sound source being loud enough to bring out the 'room' part of the equation.
    The amp is often monitored indirectly, very few players point the speaker directly at their ears and guitar speakers are much more directional than studio monitors.
    The room part are the reflections of the walls and the standing waves/nodes of a typically acoustically untreated room which often lead to bass and low mid build up which some players like.
    In short, to sound like you have an amp in the room, you'll need to play at higher volumes - just as you would with a tube amp.
    If this can't be done, a good pair of headphones with Space activated is your best bet for completely silent practice, a Kabinet is the best option if you can afford some volume.

  • I am in a similar situation and I thought the Kemper Kone (I'm using a pair of Kabinets in stereo) got me the closest to the amp in the room at low volumes. I love it.

    Good luck with your quest.

  • Unfortunately this is all battling physics and you will have some level of compromise.

    But I agree that the Kabinet will get you quite a way there ( I have 2) although I use them at high volume/gigging.

    They translate better than many speakers at low volume. I think you are over obsessing about the open back element as to some degree you can get that openess from the profiles themselves but with the Kones you have that option anyway.

  • For a long time, I had Yamaha DXR10, as it was praised to be ultimate FRFR solution for the money. Well, it was significantly louder than my Neumamn KH-120A studio monitors (and I bought it 4 times cheaper compared to cost of Neumanns) but it was flat. Zero of amp in the room.

    I ordered passive Kabinet and I tried it with TC electronic 200$ BAM200 and 1000$ Fryette PS-2A. Results? I heard no difference between the power amps. And I heard no difference between Kabinet and DXR10.

    I sold both and since then I don't care about the hardware. I play everyday and play and play and play.

    It doesn't matter if you play 57 original Gibson plugged into 67 Plexi. What matters is, if you feel good with what you're playing.

    You cannot chase happiness by getting best gear, your are happy or unhappy.

  • I agree with those saying that AITR is about volume. It isn't just the room dynamics with loud directional point source sound, it is also the feel of the SPL to your body, and how your ears interpret sound at high volume.

    We all love that sound, but most realize that the high volume isn't practical for practice rooms or small to medium venues.

    If you have stereo IEMs, you can get your headphone sound, but will still lack the punch of a loud guitar amp. YMMV.

  • I agree with those saying that AITR is about volume. It isn't just the room dynamics with loud directional point source sound, it is also the feel of the SPL to your body, and how your ears interpret sound at high volume.

    I don't agree somehow. I could put DXR10 on high volume, with sound filling rehearsal room around, it had 130dB SPL, but it had zero Amp In The Room.

    I remember once being in music store, someone had Epiphone LP plugged into some 50W Marshall tube head connected to 4x12 cab. It was not loud in terms of decibels, but there was this missing piece in the sound, Amp In The Room.

    I don't know what is the reason, but I guess it could be the non-linearity of tubes in the poweramp pushing the cones of speakers in some magical way.

    I gave up chasing it, no chance to have Amp In The Room in my room, instead of I accepted the situation and kept playing and playing and playing. What really helped me practice everyday was (and still) is Yamaha THR30II.

  • Ok, there are 3 things really:

    1. Volume, including attack which requires considerable instantaneous current frequently found in tube amps in the form of their very big and heavy transformers. Today, I believe (haven't checked the specs) that good digital amplifiers can do this no problem.
    2. Equalization: For guitar amplification, both the amp and the cab create a mid heavy eq (Metal setups have considerable bottom as well with a little fuzz on top). In theory, a profile should contain these characteristics I believe.
    3. Compression: Tube amps create natural compression. I am not certain that a profile captures this, but I think it certainly attempts to. Regardless, the mic'ed sound of a real tube amp rig is definitely not necessarily what we hear as "amp in the room"

    The DXR10 (very nice FRFR IMO) will sound very much like the mic'ed guitar would through a PA, not necessarily like the amp in the room.

    Enter the Kemper Kab.

    I believe what Kemper have done with the Kab is to take the PA sound of the guitar, and add some spice to the equation (more than just eq I am sure) so that it outputs something much more like (exactly like if possible) an amp in the room. This makes up for profiles being miced close vs our ears getting reflections and our body getting pressure impact IMO.

    Still, a Kemper with a Kab will not be making anyone smile at whisper levels. You need to move some air IMO.

    I am an electrical engineer ..... I don't believe in "magic" associated with tubes, transformers, or cab speakers :)

    We may not be able to agree on this, but I believe that for MOST people, the difference between the guitar going through a Kemper and a FRFR and guitar going through a tube amp rig is that tube amps are LOUD. Way louder (at the frequencies they emphasize) than a FRFR.

    Furthermore, most guitar players in bar bands play WAY too loud and dominate the mix. I also believe that many guitar players feel that being way louder than all other instruments on stage sounds "good" to them. Zero good bands have a mix like this IMO.

    As with all things, this is just an opinion.