Sharing a roadmap would create expectations, as well as tell competitors what they’re up against. In advance.
They’re under no obligation to be ‘transparent’.
Has Kemper taken on too much?
- Delinquent
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I wish player had the same FX as KPA and was willing to pay for it
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G String
Moved the thread from forum Profiler related discussions to forum Feature requests. -
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A pay-for-feature concept wouldn’t bother me. Eventide’s H9 proved that model can work.
A subscription won’t happen. The technology architecture needed to make that work doesn’t exist for Kemper. It’s no small thing, either.
Their intent is to have all models (Player included) using the same KAOS.bin for updates. You can’t do that (at least not easily) if you’re going subscription based for one model.
Besides, that’s so completely out of character for Kemper it’s ridiculous.
Discontinuation of Eventides pay-for-feature has shown that the model does NOT work commercially, I suppose.
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I agree that things are moving slow.
For some improvements, we can say that they are totally stopped....
On the other side, they always come where they are not expected. Updates are just amazing !!!
IMO, for the moment, the priority is the Player....
The only things that has been told are : 1) Player's unlock features and 2) New Effects
Beyond that, it will only be surprises, as usually
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i'm probably one of Kemper's non-ideal user because i am quite content with the results i have gotten with truly very little work put into it by myself and how much is freely available already.
I understand you, i've browsed Player's rigs and there are good rigs.
But i presume you only have a Player.
My main problem is that rigs i have on my Stage are not transferable easily (i mean ; without seeing exactly what i do) on the Player.
Whether i have a Stage with too much possibilities or my Player hasn't got enough...
Wonderfull delays/reverbs/Kemper drives are missing
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Discontinuation of Eventides pay-for-feature has shown that the model does NOT work commercially, I suppose.
No. That’s not what happened at all.
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... onthe page you refer to it explicitly states "we will release a new version of H9 Control and retire the algorithm store so it will no longer be possible to purchase individual algorithms for H9s and H9 Cores" that is what I meant
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Nowhere does their explanation suggest it was a commercial failure, which is what you implied.
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I am with you considering a slowing down in Updates regarding the player which seems to be different than Head/Rack/Stage. On the other hand there might also be some new features we might receive. E.g. still waiting for a mapping of my Kemper Controller in RM… yet possible with the player … will it be long for the iconic Kempers? Will it better? Different? Still excited after more than 5 years with my Rack … In todays world we get so much so fast. Waiting was standard a few years ago 🤓
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I am with you considering a slowing down in Updates regarding the player which seems to be different than Head/Rack/Stage. On the other hand there might also be some new features we might receive. E.g. still waiting for a mapping of my Kemper Controller in RM… yet possible with the player … will it be long for the iconic Kempers? Will it better? Different? Still excited after more than 5 years with my Rack … In todays world we get so much so fast. Waiting was standard a few years ago 🤓
The current plan for Kemper is to unify the OS. Meaning - one file to update any Profiler. They've said as much and their versioning of the kaos.bin file supports this.
I don't think the Player is nearly as different as some believe.
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There seems to be a logical disconnect in the expectation of functionality for Kemper products. The products had a specific set of functionality when we purchased them. There was no contractual obligation, guarantee or promise of any additional functionality. If you bought a toaster, rack, or stage expecting something different , you made an illogical purchase. If you bought a Player expecting that it would do something different, you made an illogical purchase. If Kemper provides improvements then consider yourself fortunate. Otherwise, and to be frank, this all sounds like a bunch of entitled whining. Kemper 'owes' us nothing. To be honest, if I were making decisions at Kemper, I would view this type of complaining as 'no good deed goes unpunished'. I would be motivated to discontinue the updates as a result. These types of threads present a danger IMO. How about using the product that you bought and being happy if it happens to get upgraded?
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The current plan for Kemper is to unify the OS. Meaning - one file to update any Profiler. They've said as much and their versioning of the kaos.bin file supports this.
I don't think the Player is nearly as different as some believe.
Possibly so. It is actually more different than I would have chosen to make it (ie, no screen, only 4 slots); however, it seems that the ENGINE is the same making it mostly an easy lift to create a unified ROM image.
The fact remains that it is a Kemper at its core, just no built in screen and 4 fewer EFX slots. I believe that the paid upgrade will fill in the missing features. This should make it an ideal throw-and-go Kemper solution as well as the perfect backup for its bigger brothers.
Note: Once they do get "one ROM to rule them all", the overall team effort will go down from where it is now; however, each release will be incrementally more work than it was before. I suspect this will be easily manageable within the existing Kemper team. Then we can get back to our regularly scheduled slow, but impressive release schedule
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There seems to be a logical disconnect in the expectation of functionality for Kemper products. The products had a specific set of functionality when we purchased them. There was no contractual obligation, guarantee or promise of any additional functionality. If you bought a toaster, rack, or stage expecting something different , you made an illogical purchase. If you bought a Player expecting that it would do something different, you made an illogical purchase. If Kemper provides improvements then consider yourself fortunate. Otherwise, and to be frank, this all sounds like a bunch of entitled whining. Kemper 'owes' us nothing. To be honest, if I were making decisions at Kemper, I would view this type of complaining as 'no good deed goes unpunished'. I would be motivated to discontinue the updates as a result. These types of threads present a danger IMO. How about using the product that you bought and being happy if it happens to get upgraded?
Umm... What?
This thread seems pretty sober to me, not whining at all.
Of course the previous history of updates - and the continuation of this to some degree - is a factor in deciding whether to buy or not. That's basically "goodwill" (or reputation) for the company, which they also profit from. No, there's no contractual obligation, guarantee or promise. But some expectation of continued improvements is absolutely reasonable. Whether the company decides to fulfil such expectations is entirely up to them - and their evaluation of impact on the perception of their brand.
And do you really think a professional company such as Kemper would be butthurt about some users on a forum wanting more updates, to the degree that they decide to just not do them anymore? That's ridiculous.
I'm sure they love what they do and are excited about the new features they bring forth, but come on. It's a business. They wouldn't develop new features if it wasn't deemed profitable.
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I disagree that this thread is 'sober' - whatever that means to each of us. The thread title is 'Has Kemper Taken On Too Much'. The OP mentions Kemper being overwhelmed because of new product releases. The implication is that Kemper is resource limited and has over comitted. As a follow on, 'improvements' are not being accomplished and delivered 'on-time' or according to some expectations. I don't think butthurt applies to a company like Kemper, but user expectations could be modified by how they choose to respond. It's not dissimilar from training a dog. Previous history of updates has created expectations that Kemper may or may not want to continue to address. In the long run, all updates to the toaster, rack and stage will stop. Don't know when that will happen, but we are getting closer everyday.
I believe they developed and improved features to achieve the initial goals of the product and to stay relevant and competitive. I've owned a toaster for a few years and am happy with it. I would not have been happy or stayed with the platform had I purchased it in the first years of the product. There was clearly A LOT of room for improvement. For instance, the delays and verbs were subpar and far from state of the art. I had better delays and verbs in the mid 90s. The improvements motivated me to buy. I would never have taken the approach of buying a unit and then expecting it to be improved after the fact. So, you're right, those improvements and others helped them to be relevant, competitive and to increase revenue. I don't think any of those have much to do with profit, but I suppose you mean increased revenue? At what point will the implementation be deemed not worthy of improvement or simply good enough? At what point will Kemper decide that further improvements result in diminishing returns? I believe all of that is on the horizon. Perhaps then the dog will be retrained.
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Uhm…I dunno…..I guess……..wow?
Kemper *is* resource limited. That’s not conjecture, they’ve said as much. Repeatedly.
Mountain out of a molehill.
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it's just a conversational. forum post. no need to judge anyone as drunk or dangerous ...
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Appertaining to the original post, Yes I agree that Kemper has “taken” on too much and/or are unwilling or unable to cope with such.
The “Player” a new product, is my primary source of contention. A cursory glance at the forums show a frustrating lack of attention to the issues that many have raised with the initial “Rack” and “Toaster” versions of their product, (and Rig Manager) which remain unresolved, yet rather than address and resolve these issues, they choose to spend time on more product releases, which will inevitably present more teething problems for both the company and it’s users.
Simply my humble opinion, I mean no offence to anyone. Best wishes to all!
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I have been in engineering for around 40 years now. It is my experience that ALL engineering departments are "resource constrained". It's like saying "fish swim".
Engineers are expensive. Embedded engineers (especially good ones) are very expensive. No one has a bunch of them sitting around waiting for something to do. They are ALWAYS busy .... as are most engineers be they firmware coders, hardware designers, server or client applications.
When a new product is rolled out, first, the engineers are pressed for release. Then release has issues that are now ALL emergencies requiring nights and weekends, then post release the rash of crap you somehow didn't catch in validation needs emergency attention.
This is not abnormal IME. In this product release phase, engineering doesn't have nearly the bandwidth they do when simply adding features or fixing bugs in scheduled maintenance release .... and as a result, new features and scheduled bug releases slow for a bit while the engineering staff gets a well deserved break from the crappy high stress 12-16 hour days they have been doing.
It is also my experience that one "aww crap" erases 100 ad-a-boy's. Customers memories are short indeed.
So from one engineer "OneEng1" to the others in Kemper, hope things settle down for you soon so you can resume a normal(ish) life again :). I for one appreciate all you do and the very hard work you put in to bring these amazing products to us. @CK, let the engineering staff and project management that there are those of us out here that know how much blood, sweat, tears, late nights and weekends went into this new product and that it is appreciated!
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Christoph many years ago made his "Roadmap" and the LQ thing was kind of the last thing he wanted to realize before the "cycle" of the KPA1 ends.
I am quite sure they are working on the KPA2.
And this is very logical,the competition has become to strong in the last 3-4 years. Keeping things "like this" is not possible anymore.
Interesting times..and I say that because I know for my part that the KPA2 will set (again) new standards for the modeling business. I don't hide it (I never have in the past years) I hope it will be some kind of revolutionary symbiosis of guitar & synth modeling.
Kemper can do this.
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There seems to be a logical disconnect in the expectation of functionality for Kemper products. The products had a specific set of functionality when we purchased them. There was no contractual obligation, guarantee or promise of any additional functionality. If you bought a toaster, rack, or stage expecting something different , you made an illogical purchase. If you bought a Player expecting that it would do something different, you made an illogical purchase. If Kemper provides improvements then consider yourself fortunate. Otherwise, and to be frank, this all sounds like a bunch of entitled whining. Kemper 'owes' us nothing. To be honest, if I were making decisions at Kemper, I would view this type of complaining as 'no good deed goes unpunished'. I would be motivated to discontinue the updates as a result. These types of threads present a danger IMO. How about using the product that you bought and being happy if it happens to get upgraded?
I agree with you in this comment, exept in the Player's case ; i've bought one cause i expect it to be unlocked as CK said it here quickly after Player's launch....
I've imagined nothing or interprated utuber's vids comments and this was one of the reason i took the plunge....
Display MoreI have been in engineering for around 40 years now. It is my experience that ALL engineering departments are "resource constrained". It's like saying "fish swim".
Engineers are expensive. Embedded engineers (especially good ones) are very expensive. No one has a bunch of them sitting around waiting for something to do. They are ALWAYS busy .... as are most engineers be they firmware coders, hardware designers, server or client applications.
When a new product is rolled out, first, the engineers are pressed for release. Then release has issues that are now ALL emergencies requiring nights and weekends, then post release the rash of crap you somehow didn't catch in validation needs emergency attention.
This is not abnormal IME. In this product release phase, engineering doesn't have nearly the bandwidth they do when simply adding features or fixing bugs in scheduled maintenance release .... and as a result, new features and scheduled bug releases slow for a bit while the engineering staff gets a well deserved break from the crappy high stress 12-16 hour days they have been doing.
Another reason i don't understand why they've blocked features.
I'm not an IT engineer but they must necesseraly have spent time to develop all these restraint behaviors (in Player & in RM)....
I'm not convinced they going to have a return on investment even with the fee updgrade (but was it the goal) ?!
i understand they want to justify the price vs possibilities but, at the end, we are waiting (and don't know the conditions for the moment), a lot are already Kemper's owners and K Team have to work on this "new"/separate software....
