Kemper vs real Fender Deluxe Reverb in the room

Your amp in the room has this chain:
guitar - amp - speaker - room - you

If you profile your own amp - and listen via your studio monitors - then you get this:
guitar - amp - speaker - room(during recording) - mic(coloring) - preamp (coloring) - KPA imperfections - studio monitor(coloring) - room - you

And yes this sounds different - it should sound the same as a recording with the same mic/mic placement and played via the same studio monitors (minus the KPA imperfections).

Things you can change are:
1) the used mic
2) the mic placement
3) the used preamp
4) the room used to profile - e.g. if this room has a tiled floor or is too small then you get totally different results (depends on mic placement of course)
5) The studio monitor should be able to deliver the same volume and ideally FRFR (the full blown amp sounds better then a perfect profile via a low volume studio monitor)
6) Put your amp and monitor side by side to compare - e.g. not in a different room or amp on the floor and monitor 2 meters high.

I found that the KPA imperfections have the smallest impact (the KPA is really this great!) - the mic and mic-placement the largest.

Did you try my Deluxe52? - here I used a miking technique to get the sound 'in the room' as close as possible.
If not - play my sound sample via your studio monitors - and compare.

Yes, I understand - but even a perfect FRFR system (power amp and speaker) would not sound like your amp - because of the other parts of the chain (compare line 2 and 4 in my last answer).

As for the FRFR system - there are a lot of great systems available - best advice (IMHO) is to put a few sound samples on a mp3 player and go to a shop with a lot of different systems and try then all - you'll need some time for it

The problem is, if you go to the shop what kind of music will you play?
Most recordings are close miked and heavily processed.
That's why I recommend to download my far miked samples of the Deluxe52 and Harvard - and then play then via you current system and later via the other systems in the shop.

Even better: Take your KPA to the shop - with some far miked profiles inside.

Closed miked profiles will NEVER sound like the amp in your room - regardless of the used FRFR system.

I think he mean power amp and Guitar cab

There is no right or wrong answer here, - a lot of people favor towards the Matrix amps. - Plus (speaker of choice) but others are available, atomic/mesa/marshall/Electro harmnics etc..
Depending on what you play you have to bear in mind that if for example your cab is a V30, then a fender twin may sound odd. (not bad) but different.

If you want it to just feel like an amp in the room it works fine, but authentic tones it wont get you there unless you go FOH/Direct to PA.

Here is a suggestion and one I use with great results live.

I have KPA > Moniter out > Matrix > 2x12 cab (with Moniter out set to nocab) - Backline, acts like a amp pushing air.
then also...
KPA > Mainout Left > QSCK12 pointing at my face
KPA > Mainout Right > FOH or (Anolouge L+R) FOH

Larger sound, great detail.

"I think he mean power amp and Guitar cab"

Ok, that can't work for more than one amp.

If you use a power amp and real guitar cab then you are limited to this one cab - e.g. you need a Jensen 1x12" guitar cab for your Deluxe sound - and all other kinds of amps (which use different cab's) will sound poor.

Well, the best here is highly subjective, and there are numerous threads dealing with the 'best' way to amplify the profiler.
At the moment personally I use an Atomic FR for this, others have good experiences with different solutions.

What I can say from personal experience is this:
1. A cheap FRFR solution won't do the KPA any justice.
2. More expensive FRFR solutions help amplify all the complexity and '3D' that the KPA delivers.
3. Interestingly with the modified Monitor Out in the KPA it has now become possible to achieve VERY sarisfactory results using non- FRFR solutions like guitar speakers (also cheaper ones).

Yes, there are different ways - the most important thing is "do you like your sound".

I just talked about the way to reproduce faithfully the sound of more than one amp with different types of speakers via one system.

And for this is FRFR the only option.

Yes the way 3 (from Doc) is also an option - that will work for some - but can't reach a FRFR system.
btw. the Line6 Vetta used exactly this way - they know which real speakers were in the Vetta and the Vetta selected a speaker compensation for each different modeled speaker - this works - not great but better than nothing

The KPA can not even do that because - the KPA does not know about the used real speaker and whatever compensation they have built into the output section - it can only be a generic guitar speaker compensation - which will fit more or less your used speakers.

Which is more than enough to blow some air for live playing and send the main signal to the FOH - but won't help anybody wanting to get the 'amp in the room' sound at home.

And whatever will be done - if the profile was close miked - it will sound like a recorded amp - even with the most expensive FRFR system.

The comparison to a real combo in a room (without PA) is the toughest test. I am quite happy with my RCF NX 12sma although it does not deliver the real 3D experience. Due to the coaxial horn it seems to behave a bit more realistic in this situation. But I think these " vibrations, 3D sound experience as a real amp" come from the open back reflexes that a combo amp can spread all over the room. A closed back FRFR cannot do this. If you can do with only one type of cabinet sound the best way seems to use KPA > poweramp > guitar cabinet with the CAB in the KPA switched off.

To do far miked profiles seems to be an interesting way to check out...

IME, a FRFR based solution will rarely sound like a traditional amp in a room because you are comparing 2 vastly different designs. Really, in the world of acoustical science guitar amps are shit. They tend to be very directional, multi-speaker setups introduce all kinds of comb-filtering/phase cancellation, bandwidth limitations, etc. We as guitarists have simply learned to exploit all these sonic defects to our advantage (and likely have simply grown accustomed to the sound over the decades). In contrast, the rest of the audio world moved to eliminate the deficiencies of speaker box by implementing time corrected multiple drivers with cross overs to expand the frequency response and reduce comb-filtering, deaden enclosures to reduce resonance, vastly increase projection off axis, etc.

As such if you want the Kemper to sound exactly like your amp in the room, run the monitor out without cabinets into the same power amp and speaker of your amp. Of course that means that any other profiles you have will be limited by your amps tonal signature, good or bad. For folks like me who really can't crank up my amp, studio cats needing to exactly recreate a recording chain at a later date, or folks who really like having a million amps at their finger tips digital gear like the Kemper is a God Send. But if all your trying to do is exactly copy the sound of your amp from a specific position in your room, just play your amp and be done with it.

Quote from Will_Chen

But if all your trying to do is exactly copy the sound of your amp from a specific position in your room, just play your amp and be done with it.

it's as easy as that and I have a couple for that purpose but I usually come right back to the Kemper very soon after.

Quote from fretboardminer

The comparison to a real combo in a room (without PA) is the toughest test. I am quite happy with my RCF NX 12sma although it does not deliver the real 3D experience. Due to the coaxial horn it seems to behave a bit more realistic in this situation. But I think these " vibrations, 3D sound experience as a real amp" come from the open back reflexes that a combo amp can spread all over the room. A closed back FRFR cannot do this. If you can do with only one type of cabinet sound the best way seems to use KPA > poweramp > guitar cabinet with the CAB in the KPA switched off.

To do far miked profiles seems to be an interesting way to check out...

Open back vs. closed back....these differences are too much to overcome, even with two actual guitar amps in the same room. In the end it all comes down to speakers. Heck, you can even tell big differences between the various profiled speakers in the KPA.

"3D" is a good observation, and in this regard, a single FRFR monitor will never quite deliver. There's a lot going on with a guitar cabinet in a room that is inherently multi-dimensional: a guitar cabinet - especially an open-backed cabinet - is pushing different timbres in different directions, and these are bouncing off the walls and meeting with the listener at different times.

The KPA is "hearing" a single point source, e.g. a microphone (or in the most complex case, a mono mixdown of several microphones) and profiling it's timbre accordingly. If the FRFR monitor reproduces this accurately, you'll hear what the amp delivers at that point in space at any given point in time, so some of the complexity is lost because the system is accurate. The only real way to fix this in a FR paradigm is with a system of multiple tone generators feeding multiple FR monitors, set up to create a stereo or surround sound listening environment.

The alternative as described previously in this thread is to run the KPA into a power amp and then into a conventional guitar cab that will work the "3D" magic on its own. But at that point you are not profiling the cab so you'll lose all of the flexibility that comes with that. And you'll need to make profiles that minimize the effect of the original cabinet, either with close micing and minimal speaker distortion, or with DI profiles.

I think I do have 4 D when engage studio Event monitors ,QSC' 10'' and tube amp/ Mesa Cab in the same time .
Ok that's 3 .
The 4th dimension is my room

Quote from diego

Thanks guys for your hints and opinion on this topic!

I have now tried to just link the KPA to my Bogner poweramp with an open 2X12 box. Indeed, compared to some firmware versions before, the quality is great. 3D is on my mind!! As I am not the big distortion man and prefer more towards clean all is good and I am happy. I was actually a bit disappointed before that a cheap Fender Mustang IV was more 3D than the Kemper with the FRFR. Now solved

Cheers
Sacapuntas

Yep....I bet you had an "Ah-Ha" moment there.

This isn't really an answer, but I found that using a Sustainiac can really help bridge the gap between guitar amp cab and FRFR.

http://www.sustainiac.com/

I have the Stealth Pro installed in my Steinberger but I plan on one day getting the Model C for my G&L. Just a touch can really make you feel like you're standing next to a cranked stack.

Sacapuntas, you should once try to amplify your KPA using the return of your Mustang.
(Monitor Out, cab off).
Tell me what you think.

I would try with cab on as well, I did it on a flextone III and was good (with some eq adjustment)