Reverb setting to match a real close mic'd amp

    Quote from Quitty

    So, would it be possible to discuss these?
    Whatever it is that we are sometimes missing can probably be solved by a purposeful reverb algorithm (low/high decay and maybe a different modulation algorithm as the present one is slightly too 'chorus-y', IMO),
    and some rudimentary 'poweramp grit' simulation to complement the already great 'power sagging' and 'tube shape'. On this much, i agree.


    We actually have a very effective power amp grid control on board, but it might be overseen when it's needed: the Tube Shape parameter set to higher values adjusts the distortion characteristic towards power amp distortion. The profiling manual recomments a value of 9 for typical sounds.

    Quote from ckemper

    We actually have a very effective power amp grid control on board, but it might be overseen when it's needed: the Tube Shape parameter set to higher values adjusts the distortion characteristic towards power amp distortion. The profiling manual recomments a value of 9 for typical sounds.

    Wait, i thought higher values are towards preamp tube sound?
    3.3 is the default. Anything above 5.5 usually results, for me at least, with some odd-sounding artifacts as the sound decays. That, however, i can record so as to be practical and not derail this thread further.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Quote from Per

    I would just like a no-brainer option, it captures the accurate tail and sound during the profiling process, then only gives you an on/off switch (or a blend parameter) on the cab itself, a mono verb, more complex than the "Space" parameter, but not as complex as the other reverbs.


    As someone said earlier the reason I used the Kemper is simplicity, and yes I cannot fineagle the various onboard or DAW verbs to really mimic a natural room sound.


    I do love the onboard verbs, but just not for this task, they're too smooth, too clean, too lush, it always sounds like an effect. The DAW ones offer some other interesting flavors, but even my best IR based ones like Ocean Ways somehow don't sound the same as the amp recorded in the actual room, again it sounds like a flat "room like" verb, but still too even, no real resonance there, too perfect, it sounds again like an effect rather than the natural real thing..


    Peer, do you create your own profiles and do you use a separate control room for doing that?

    I roll my own and also use others. I'm in a home studio most of the time so no separate control room unless I go out and use the local studios. Obviously that places limits and constraints, so in order to really profile correctly and hear and compare I have to create a dry track to re-amp through both amp (via Kemper) and the Kemper itself and coimpare the recorded results in DAW, and also switch studio monitors off during any real amp/refining or profiling processes, it's quite a messy workaround and a lot of work, but it's worth it as it allows me to refine to a much closer point than otherwise in that situation. Obviously it's much easier to refine within a separate control room setup. But that's why I put in that request for looping ABx compare during refining built in.


    I remember right back at the beginning you heard a profile comparison when I was having some difficulty getting my Mesa profiled and stated that the difference was simply the rooms reverberations/tails yourself.

    A mildly off-topic question, but it might be useful as a workaround for those of us who want to keep tinkering with this idea:


    Are there any free profiles that use a room mic, rather than close? If so, applying a room reverb to THAT profile should produce a much more realistic sound than simply putting room reverb on a close-miked profile. I've been reading about Chris Tsangarides' guitar recording style (one close mic panned hard, one room mic panned the other way) and this would be really useful for copying him.

    If you want to experiment with this idea:


    This 2012 Rig Exchange profile was made with the microphone at ear level, and eight or so feet away (I don't remember the exact distance):
    PaulTS Jubilee Marsh (1)


    For a distant vs. close miced cab comparison (with pre-3.0 studio rigs)
    I uploaded it with Tills 1960 011 Cab swapped in:
    PaulTS Jubilee Marsh


    And, with a cab from someone else's Sweet Slash profile: PaulTS Jubilee Marsh (2)

    Cool, I'll check out when I get a chance.


    Ideally, though, this would involve two profiles - one taken normally with a close mike, and a second with the room mic using the exact same amp settings. To make it as accurate as possible, you'd also have to know the distance between the microphones and add a delay to the room track in your DAW.


    All I have is a tiny bedroom and two SM57s or I'd try this myself. :/

    I agree there is a certain realism that comes from the room tail sound and it tends to brighten the high frequencies without making them harsh i ussually resort to using an impulse loader in my DAW channel of a small room on an insert of the channel the kemper track is recorded on , then i set the mix of the impulse pretty high to try to simulate ,
    if you listen to real album tracks especially form the 70s and 80s the room contributes alot


    example ....

    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.


    , i would love to see a room simulator in kemper , the space parameter is ok but it just doesn t seem to nail that sound , sort of like in drum recording the room sound can be an integral part of the recording , and if each drum was miked close with no room , it doesnt sound big like drums recorded with room mikes, guitar needs a little room too i think


    then again maybe im just after tones of the past because most guys only seem to close mike guitar amps theese days with no room mikes anyways

    Close mic'ing has its uses.
    Far mic'ing can be emulated to a decent extent from a close-mic'ed source, but not the other way around.
    I do think Kemper GmbH can do better than 'decent extent', but that's a feature request if i ever saw one.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."


    apart from the "room sound" im hearing a nice roughness tone


    the KPA always sounds more polite , "produced" .

    Quote from Kosta


    apart from the "room sound" im hearing a nice roughness tone


    the KPA always sounds more polite , "produced" .


    I disagree.
    Apart from the room sound that's in the aforementioned recording (which can obviously not be profiled)
    the roughness from the amp (plus dirt pedals) can always be reproduced and profiled without any problem.
    In no way does the Kemper sound more polished.

    I havent made any profiles, so i cant say profile x sounds exactly like real rig y, but many of my favorite profiles exhibit a roughness that id associate with real amps. This is one of the reasons i went kemper vs axe. The kemper sounds natural and analog, not sterile or "fake"

    I also went with the Kemper for it's more rough natural complex amp-like tone. But then I get caught, sometimes I too find that it's too smooth, other times I get surprised by a particular profile and find that it gets that exact grit that I've been looking for. I still think that there is a tendency to be missing that honky sound where a component is getting way overdriven and is cracking up or flat lining, or from resonance sounds. It's the best possible right now, but I think there is still room for improvement.


    OTOH Christoph has stated that the Kemper is all about the pre-amp and doesn't seek to emulate the kinds of often much less pleasant distortions that you get from the power amp. Could this be a part of the smoother sound factor? Pre-amps after all while characterful often lack that raw overdrive-the-inputs-on-an-old-radio-circuit-till-it-sounds-like-its-about-to-burn-out sound (among others).

    I'm often still missing poweramp response.
    I've been plugging the Profiler into the power-section of an old JVM lately and find that the extra compression - which is decidedly not linear, so i guess it counts as distortion - really helps with some profiles.


    I'd love to be able to have something similar built-in that i can fine tune and turn on or off. Power sagging really isn't 'there'.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Quote from Per


    OTOH Christoph has stated that the Kemper is all about the pre-amp and doesn't seek to emulate the kinds of often much less pleasant distortions that you get from the power amp. Could this be a part of the smoother sound factor? Pre-amps after all while characterful often lack that raw overdrive-the-inputs-on-an-old-radio-circuit-till-it-sounds-like-its-about-to-burn-out sound (among others).

    Don't quote me on this but IIRC he only stated that it's difficult for the profiler to capture preamp and poweramp distortion at the same time.
    If it was only about preamp distortion e.g. AC 30’s could not be profiled sarifactorily.