Be careful with the amp / company names

  • I own a trademark and have won a domain name case because of it. If someone uses a trademark in the brand / naming, they can get sued. If it is used in the description, along with details of who actually owns the trademark, it is fine. I am not a lawyer though.


    I have the same information, but I am also not a lawyer.

  • I own a trademark and have won a domain name case because of it. If someone uses a trademark in the brand / naming, they can get sued. If it is used in the description, along with details of who actually owns the trademark, it is fine. I am not a lawyer though.


    Sounds right to my non-legal ears. No one seems afraid to mention the brands and models of the mics they used to make the profile. The amps, mics, preamps, pedals, etc are really just tools that were used to "program" the sound, and as such, I don't see a distinction between the mic and the amp itself as programming tools.

  • This is my post from this thread a little while ago. I am a lawyer. But this isnt legal advice, deffo get your own advice.


  • Here's 1) a quiz if you can find out which is which , 2) a proposal for names and 3) a question if you think that these names could be legally used:

    ACST

    BDHA

    BGNR

    BLKS

    BUGR

    CRVN

    DMBL

    DOCY

    DZIL

    FNDR

    FOXX

    GBSN

    HUKN

    HWTT

    IBNZ

    JOJO

    KSTM

    KHWK

    LNSX

    LNYE

    MRGN

    MRSH

    MSBG

    MMAN

    NGEL

    ORNG

    PIVY

    REVS

    RLND

    RNDL

    SLDN

    SNDC

  • The part I don't understand, in terms of infringement, is that profiles are not product for product equivalents to the amp they are profiling.


    A profile includes a whole host of things, including amp settings, guitar pedals, speakers, cabinet design, mics, mic pres, console settings, talent, etc. If an amp manufacturer has a valid infringement case, then so does every manufacturer in the signal chain. Can Shure sue Kemper for infringement for reproducing the sound of an SM-57 mic'ing a guitar cabinet? AKG? Or what about Ruper Neve? Or Celestion?


    I would liken it to Sherwin Williams (paint manufacturer) suing Home Depot for taking another brand of base paint to create a custom color match for a customer.


    I imagine a manufacturer could be enough of a thorn in the side of a profiler to make them capitulate, but I bet they'd lose in an actual court case.

  • Those other companies may have a case - but not much interest in pursuing it at all.


    It's not copyright infringement, but trademark infringement which is a different beast.

  • Yes, this is only a problem in case you sell profiles.

    Free profiles can have any name you like.


    After the puchase of profiles you can rename the rigs to any name you like.

    (All trademarks are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with soundside.de)


    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

  • We can‘t sell „Great Shure SM57 Mxxx“ profiles neither.

    (All trademarks are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with soundside.de)


    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

  • This is my post from this thread a little while ago. I am a lawyer. But this isnt legal advice, deffo get your own advice.

    I'm posting my thoughts as a reply to yours just so no one thinks I'm picking on lawyers behind their backs. :)


    Having been a serial entrepreneur in a previous life, always on the small business side of things, I thought I'd offer a perspective to folks regarding copyrights, trademarks, contracts, etc. that's not about right / wrong or legal / illegal, but rather a matter of practicality.


    With no disrespect intended to my guitar slinging legal beagle friends, what people need to realize is one very important fact - the moment lawyers get involved, everyone loses. Except the lawyers, who get paid either way. I realize that sounds cynical, and lawyers deserve to get paid just like everyone else, but in the immortal words of Miyagi-san from Karate Kid, "The best way to block a kick is no be there." The moment you become engaged in a legal conflict, whether you were in the right or not, you're going to come out bloody to some degree.


    People often think they'll prevail based on justice. In reality, a legal contract or any other such thing has very, very little to do with the outcome of a court case. It's typically down to, "my lawyer can beat up your lawyer" or even more often, "I can afford to pay my lawyer longer than you can afford to pay yours." The latter, in fact, is among the primary weapons of larger corporations with deep pockets, and often lets them get their way whether they were actually in the right or not.


    All of which is to say that a well educated and comprehensive reading of the given legal statutes involved may indicate that you should be able to use a brand, trademark, copyrighted material or whatever. And yet, that doesn't keep someone from suing you just the same. And it certainly doesn't shield you from the legal fees you then incur from defending yourself.


    So, the smart money is on the people who, as Miyagi-san suggests, avoid the conflict in the first place by not using anyone's brand names. Maybe there are cases where they should, legally, be able to do so. However, people rarely get sued for respecting other people's property.


    I find it terribly clumsy to try and figure out which amp is what from these profiles. But I prefer that to seeing well intentioned people having to spend money defending themselves against legal action, spurious or otherwise.

  • Often it's not even their fault. In the U.S. at least if you don't actively defend your tradmarks, etc. you can lose them, so it almost forces people to take legal action against you.

  • ... or employ the age-old tactic, such that the ACLU is famous for, of threatening to sue even when there's no solid legal leg to stand on.


    Most then opt for the prudent response of backing away, and this, as I've pointed out previously in these sorts of discussions here, is what I feel Kemper Profilers have been doing, and as I also said on these occasions, I'd like to see just one of them stand up and contest the threat so we'll all have a definitive precedent to guide what have thus far been "endless", meandering speculations as to the legality of the use of "proper" names.

  • ... or employ the age-old tactic, such that the ACLU is famous for, of threatening to sue even when there's no solid legal leg to stand on.


    Most then opt for the prudent response of backing away, and this, as I've pointed out previously in these sorts of discussions here, is what I feel Kemper Profilers have been doing, and as I also said on these occasions, I'd like to see just one of them stand up and contest the threat so we'll all have a definitive precedent to guide what have thus far been "endless", meandering speculations as to the legality of the use of "proper" names.

    I'm sure you'd have more volunteers if you offered to pay the legal fees. :)

  • I think balance is the key, you can name the amp in rig manager so you Can figure out what the amp is and the name does not infringe on a trade mark.


    All my packs have this except south side , I love the sounds of these packs but Exactly like Chris Duncan I can't tell what amp I am looking at because the naming is done to hide the amp.


    Not trying to be an asshole, but it's too much time for me to rename all my rigs from southside

    All as I am saying is that you can name the amp so people can tell and still be safe. This has nothing to do with Dan getting a letter from Suhur , completely different issue.Look at any other vendors packs see how it's named so you can guess what amp it is but it's not worded word for word? That's safe and ok to do.


    Anyways just saying guys hope everyone is having a good break


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    Edited once, last by ashtweth ().

  • Yeah Ash, but the fact that there's no standard means that it makes it tough to search RM for amp names. So many creative variations means a heckuva-lot of frustration, at least for this monkey.


    What I'm currently doing is renaming everything using the amp-name field and re-saving the retagged Rigs, replacing the original bought .zip files. It's... taking... a... looong... time...

  • What I'm currently doing is renaming everything using the amp-name field and re-saving the retagged Rigs, replacing the original bought .zip files. It's... taking... a... looong... time...

    I know. I've been doing that as I go along since the beginning, but it's such a pain. It often takes longer researching what the actual amp is, than to change the tags.


    The helpful ones say trying to recreate the sound of 'whatever' amp. Those vendors seem to think it's safe enough, but I suppose it's down to the individual vendor as to how many threats they've had or how they feel about it.

    Sterling Musicman JP150, Fender USA Strat
    Kemper Powerhead & Remote > ElectroVoice ZLX12-P | Palmer 1x12 Cab(G12M) | Sennheiser HD558
    Audient iD14 > Reaper