No, WE don't need a kemper2

  • hi, i am having a hard time understanding you.

    Every time a new machine comes out you whine to get a kemper 2. But let's be logical 2 minutes and imagine kemper2 comes.

    This would mean a devaluation of kemper 1 (loss of money) and a migration to kpa2 (therefore still loss of money) to obtain a product whose upgrades would not justify such an investment compared to what kemper 1 brings .

    By your comments, you push the firm to release a kemper 2 and therefore to abandon the possible improvements of kemper 1.

  • let's be logical 2 minutes ... obtain a product whose upgrades would not justify such an investment

    I'm certainly not an advocate for a Kemper 2 "just because". But what makes you so sure a Kemper Profiler 2 would not justify the investment? All I read from your post is "money, money, money" ... money you don't have in your pocket anyway because you have spent it on the Kemper Profiler already. You want to sell it and get most of your money back? Sell it now. But what will you replace it with? Or you want to keep it? Then what's the fuss about money? I have a hard time understanding you. ;)

  • I'm certainly not an advocate for a Kemper 2 "just because". But what makes you so sure a Kemper Profiler 2 would not justify the investment? All I read from your post is "money, money, money" ... money you don't have in your pocket anyway because you have spent it on the Kemper Profiler already. You want to sell it and get most of your money back? Sell it now. But what will you replace it with? Or you want to keep it? Then what's the fuss about money? I have a hard time understanding you. ;)

    Actually the release of a "Kemper 2" could have a lot more connotations. Historically firms that upgrade their hardware will stop supporting legacy gear at some point, probably because it then becomes expensive and counter - productive to do so. I think we are extremely fortunate to have Kemper not take the historic business model, and actually continue support and upgrades for 10+ years.

    Most people that have purchased a Kemper in the last many years know exactly what they are getting and chose it because of that.

  • I am also not interested in "more fx,more paths more this and that"..I don't need two and more amps at once.I have two Kempers.. I tried it.It is not worth all the fuzz (no pun intended) imo..


    But the KPA is now 10 years old.


    If a Kemper2 brings "new sounds" and new real practical and needed features into the game...why not?


    Better ways to get together with the kone a amp in the room sound.


    An integrated "synth module" is on the wish list of many guitar players.


    Or imagine the ability to "take parts" of new Kemper kpa2 component modeling with the ability to "put them" or to mix them into our profiles..complementing them.there where the profile "lacks" or making it a little different.


    There is stuff which makes sense for a kpa2 we will never be able to do with the kpa1.

  • paddyc I certainly agree with what you wrote ... but at the same time I know that any given hardware platform (at some point) will come to its limits. At some point the "support" in terms of adding features will come to an end. No matter if it's after 10 years or 15 years (which is already a damn long time in modern technology).


    Let me give you three quick examples (of many) why I wouldn't mind a new generation of Kemper Profilers:

    • I would absolutely LOVE the Profiler to have at least 2 completely independent (yet linkable) signal chains. One benefit of this would be dual amp rigs, even though I understand that not everyone is keen to have that option. But let me tell you, it would be awesome! I could see me use it not only for guitar but also as a (parallel or serial) compression/saturation tool e.g. for a drums bus or any other stereo bus in mixing ... maybe even as a mastering tool.
    • One requirement for the above would be a proper internal oversampling to get rid of the annoying aliasing with all stomps/blocks in the current Profiler. This is one of the major downsides of the current architecture.
    • I can imagine that with 3-4 profiles (from clean to max gain) of any amp channel/mode, it would be possible to merge them into an interpolated "multi-profile" that yields in better representation of the original Gain knob behaviour ... basically trying to overcome the "snapshot" character of the current Profiler in a smart way. Wouldn't it be awesome to be able to profile an entire amp channel? In combination with more sophisticated settings options for "Bass/Mid/Treble/Presence" in the amp block (center frequency, Q factor, upper and lower EQ gain limits) I'm sure this beautiful beast called Profiler could become quite a bit "better".


    Again, this is just 3 examples, I could easily extend this list to 20 or more bullet points. :)

  • From my point of view the Kemper does not need to refresh the Kemper to add thing like dual amps or that kind of thing. Now that being said a Kemper 2 that refreshed the UI with the modern features like a screen or user interface things like that. This would allow an updated model to be released with a more modern feel while retaining the same OS that all the units are using. That type of solution would be a win for everyone, new features and feel to bring in the people that complain about the UI while retaining the updates and functionality for those that are content with the Kemper as is. One common things that I have noticed with all of the QC stuff online lately is that it is getting put up against the 10 year old Kemper over and over again and still only gets a slight edge in a couple minor areas. This confirms to me that the Kemper as is, is still VERY relevant. The idea of a Kemper 2 with only a UI refresh I think could be a game winner.

  • a Kemper 2 with only a UI refresh I think could be a game winner

    No serious musician or studio owner would buy a Kemper 2 just for a UI refresh. UI might be the icing on the cake but if the new cake doesn't offer anything fresh to the game, the icing won't convince many to upgrade. And also keep in mind that fancy UI could also be done on smartphones, tablets, workstations. Just look at the UAD Ox Box for example. The hardware has no display, no fancy UI ... everything detailled happens exclusively via the editor app. ;)

  • One common things that I have noticed with all of the QC stuff online lately is that it is getting put up against the 10 year old Kemper over and over again and still only gets a slight edge in a couple minor areas. This confirms to me that the Kemper as is, is still VERY relevant.

    Personally I believe this will remain like this.


    The concept is sound.Everthing fits into everything.. every tiny detail.


    For example...When I bought my second KPA I was prepared to dive deep into midi and that I would disappear from the outside world because of programming two KPA s to work together flawlessly for days & weeks..morphing,volume,fx..


    And then I learned that it was concipated from the scratch to "cooperate with its kind"..5 minutes..all done..


    I guess every experienced musician loves this concept..from seamless switching to automatic volume leveling to using multiple KPA s..and still going strong..


    Nothing of all this can be found in any other modeler.

    For me this is the main reason why the Kemper will stay on top.It does not only sound good but it also just works and responds to every problem instantly.Like it has indeed little green men inside asking "what can we do for you today?".


    A KPA2 with the same philosophy but new abilities to create new sounds in a easy and musical way..why not..

  • The Kemper 2 will be in full stereo (with stereo powered amp @1 gigawatt) and have the ability to use a separate profile for each channel. It will also have a cappuccino maker and a milk frother tube coming out the side. I bet the screen will be a full color touchscreen that doubles as a cell phone. ;)


    Sign me up!

  • Ok, my 2 cents:


    There will be a Kemper 2. No doubt about it. The real problem for ckemper is that eventually, the internal major chips (DSP) will be considered EOL. It is likely (I haven't checked) that they are already listed as "not recommended for new designs".


    Now, this doesn't mean that Kemper couldn't just stay within the same DSP family, tweak a bit, and make a "refresh", but that wouldn't give you a new architecture or fundamentally different work-flows.


    FWIW, I have been doing engineering for so long, I have forgotten what it is like to look at a device and not immediately mentally disseminate the device into its likely architectural components ;). Sad, but true. The point is, MOST companies don't throw out an architecture that works well. They tend to grow from the same base.


    I believe that a Kemper 2 would certainly bring some new goodness though. Color LCD, more flexible signal routing, higher quality sampling that better eliminates the potential for aliasing, etc.


    I still have my money on Kemper releasing an even less expensive FC with the existing architecture that can only be edited off-line. Shoot, I might buy one just for the backup capability at gigs.


    We will see!

  • YES, WE DO! ;)


    As people state it’s ten years old now and I’ve had it for almost ten years. To ME it’s an old machine now and I will not particularly loose money, since I’ve had it for many years. It has earned its value already. But for people just jumping onboard, I can see your point. And yet again not. EVERY company out there puts out new stuff that makes the old worth less. So what? That’s the nature of things. Then you don’t wanna buy stuff, if you’re afraid of that happening. That will always happen.


    But the fact that many don’t find the profiling accurate enough, should be reason enough to brush up the profiling procedure.


    The fact that a profile usually is a “one mic only” thing, also makes for a slight adjustment regarding the profiling if a regular recording setup is the focus. No one records guitars with only one mic on the cab anymore. Always at least two mics on the cab to get a more nuanced sound. Yes.....people make profiles with two mics through a mixer. True. But if you can do several profiles and mix them together and go back to adjust to your liking, it would be a huge advancement in closing in on a more nuanced sound.


    So because YOU don’t like the idea, doesn’t make it the absolute truth, because you feel that way. Is my thoughts the truth? No. It’s my subjective opinion. And it’s absolutely equal to yours. So relax a bit and don’t get a stroke.


    I see lots of great stuff in the Kemper as it is and I love it. But do I see stuff that could be better? Yes, I do. And would I like them? Of course.


    For me there hasn’t been many competitors up until now. Axe FX III and Neural Quad especially are giving us options, that ARE cool. And several plugins. And they sound great. What’s wrong with expressing thoughts about a possible Kemper 2? I really don’t get your negativity. If you don’t want to get the latest and best gear be my guest and stay in the past. Some of us do like the gear that sets the standards. And the Kemper 1 is not doing that anymore. It sounds great and the fact that they keep updating the unit is crazy. It’s a totally different machine from when I got it. But still....that’s not the same as keeping up with the competitors. You don’t care. But I actually do.


    So I think we might leave it that. That it’s okay to want different stuff and seeing different possibilities.


    It’s Friday. Cheers.

  • As far as I have understand this whole issue with dsp and cpu and all..the stuff..(and please correct me if I am wrong) is that you have by far more horsepower to do many,many things at the same time.And more of these.


    This is nice.


    A good thing to have.More Amps simultaneously, more top class reverb,more delays..and ofcourse the UI.Just using your forefinger throwing,beating and stretching the [email protected] out on the touchscreen.


    Thus is also a very nice thing.


    But..as far as I understand the sound and the way the kemper profiles any amp is based on a human made algorithm?


    As far as I can remember @CK has said in the past that this algorithm is still so good you can't do it "much better".And indeed 10 years into the kemper profiling there is a big question mark if more horsepower and AI and "training" and all these nice new stuff gives us the ability to just let a newbie put any tbone 10€ mic in front of a 4000$ matchless and this super modeler will do a super profile/capture..magically and with "no efforts"..somehow..


    Sorry.I don't believe this.Sounds like bollocks to me.


    Profiling(or "capture" or whatever they will call it in the future) will always require at least some basic knowledge,good gear and ofcourse and most important a good ear,taste and all the other voodoo things you need for good sound.All the talk about aliasing,cock of wah(fog of war?) Is in most cases bad profiling,bad EQuing,bad taste and insufficient experience how to handle a guitar sound.


    And this will not change.


    A kemper 2 should be build with new sounds in mind.If there is a way to make it sound a little bit better or make it more easy to "get that sound"..ofcourse..but I doubt it is possible.If it would the maker would have it already done.I mean a new and better algorithm during the profiling process or afterwards refining processing.


    A better UI..ok..who ever needs it.I understand that it is important to many producers in their recording studios.


    But let us not forget that the kemper1 was the modeler which took the digital fear away from many,many actually countless tube rig players with its amp like UI and the years long resistance to software editors and other "typically digital nerd" stuff.


    That being said.I believe that a kemper2 made as a top line "producer tool",modular (with several synth,multiamp,top class fx standalone,multi I/O etc tools being connected into on system) would make it industry standard for the next 1-2 decades until the kemper3.


    Just because everyone who has the KPA knows that it is a serious tool and has helped a lot of working musicians in many,many difficult situations.Always sounding good.Always reliable.Ofcourse a kpa2 will come.Maybe sooner than later.