Fuzz pedal profiling - unpredictable results

Hi,

after several attempts of profiling amps with (more extreme) fuzz pedals with bad results, I did some testing today, trying to find out what´s goining wrong here.

guitar used: Fender Thinline Tele with a Barknuckle Blue Note P90 in neck poition
stompbox: Z.Vex Fuzz Factory, setting Vol:3; Gate:0; Comp:0; Drive:5; Stab:10
amp: Sans Amp PSA-1 with a clean, slightly breaking up Plexi-like preset
recording: RME Fireface 800, analog inputs

I recorded the following signal chains:

1: GTR -> FuzzFactory -> SansAmp -> Fireface
that´s the "source sound" to deal with

2: GTR -> KPA input -> KPA direct out -> FuzzFactory -> SansAmp -> Fireface
you can hear significantly more gain, the fuzz sounds over the top, kinda destroyed.

3: GTR -> KPA input -> KPA direct out -> FuzzFactory -> SansAmp -> KPA return -> KPA master out -> Fireface
sounds even more destroyed

4: GTR -> KPA input -> KPA direct out -> Pickup simulator -> FuzzFactory -> SansAmp -> KPA return -> KPA master out -> Fireface
the pickup simulator is a little passive device I built to create a guitar pickup-like impedance at the input of the pedal. Some pedals, especially fuzzes need to "see" a guitar signal incoming, they don´t work as expected with line level signals for example.
This sounds better, but still too far away from example 1!

5: the profile, KAP out -> fireface
the profile sounds completely different, even after refining ´till the cows came home
somewhat clean, without the splatty character of the fuzz.

please give it a listen: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2y7p…6grxo/FuzzFactoryTest.mp3

So here I am, just slightly smarter than before, because I have no clue what to do to get a final profile with the sound of example 1.
Any ideas?

Quote from michaelmellner

uhm........might be the only one here but they sound very interesting. might not be the sound you want but they are very nice...........

yes, even the "wrong" sounds are usable and interesting in their own way.
What I ´m aiming for is the tone from example 1.
I am not able to profile this sound correctly. My last example is completely different from the source tones.

Thanks for listening!!

Thanks for clarification!

Now this comes to my mind: how about an adjustable direct out for such special moments? Is there a way to make the KPA send a "fuzz-ready" signal?

If not, some more Fuzz Stopms would be nice!

Quote from whippinpost91850

cant remember where ,but someone on the forum, someone had a dummy pickup kind of setup, to help with profiling fuzzes. Might have been Don Peterson

yeah, that was me

I had great results with the pickup dummy for reamping purposes in the past, but for profiling with certain fuzz boxes it unfortunately doesn´t work good enough.

sure, no problem! here it is:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jxwq…013-09-03%2012-22-43.kipr

All I got from my testing was only this one profile, the one you can hear in example 5. The KPA unfortunately could not capture the more interesting sounds of the other examples.

Have fun

I´ve uploaded more stomp box profiles some time ago to the rig exchange. do a search for "r.u.sirius" or "Stomp_", maybe you find some you can use!

Quote from billruppert

The sound you are after is called the velcro fuzz. Its bias is off and it produces a gated/ripping sound.
The Kemper can not profile that gate effect.

Hi Bill, thanks for chiming in!

Yes and no
In my example 1 I used the Fuzz Factory pedal with Gate and Comp at zero, and Stab full, which means off! As far as I know with this setting the Fuzz Factory should work like a standard fuzz pedal, for example like a Fuzz Face. The gating effect did not interfere the profiling process.

ckemper already told us that profiling fuzz pedals is sometimes imopossible because of impedance mismatch, so that´s the problem in the first place. Otherwise the profiling of the example 1 sound should have been possible.

Of course it would be great to be able to profile a fuzz sound with this special "velcro" quality!

@ ckemper, I repeat myself: is there a way to make the direct out adjustable impedance wise? Or is this idea just stupid due to my complete technical ignorance?

Maybe there is a device that can be put between the KPA direct out and the fuzz pedal, with which we can adjust the impedance? Something more evolved than my cheapo pickup-dummy, which does a pretty good job for reamping!

Quote from DonPetersen

have you tried a reamping box?
the price tag is certainly more evolved tho I must admit I don't know if they have a different underlying concept than the pickup-dummy.

Yes, I did try a Radial reamping box. The output was surprisingly low, the results not useable.

What´s the diference between a line output of my RME Fireface, which I use for reamping with the Radial reamping box with excellent results and the direct out of the Kemper?

Quote from Gary_W

For me, part of the joy of a vintage fuzz is the way it interacts with different guitar pickups and the volume pot. If you have any vintage style fuzz (such as those based on a Fuzz Face circuit) then the whole design of the thing is flawed but in a wonderful way..... It makes a circuit with your pickups. A guitar amp or more modern pedal does not do this.

For this reason, I think a profile of the amp with no fuzz and then use the fuzz in front of the Kemper. I know this isn't what everyone wants to hear but ultimately the Kemper has a high input impedance and so will not act like a fuzz pedal in terms of your guitar volume.

Just my 2 cents. Or pennies actually as I'm British

that´s exactly my conclusion after all these tests und statements