Profiling Tips and Tricks welcome

    Hello,


    after spending some more time with the Profiling Feature of my Kemper I got some questions which may be answered from more experienced user.


    It took a while to figure out how to easily get the Kemper integrated in my Setup with an Behringer X32 but I found a way to do it somehow comfortably. After trying some Routing Options out I found it best to just connect the Kemper directly to the Amp and do the Rest over the X32 Mixer.


    I was able to do some profiling and the Profile I created is kinda close to the Original.


    But today I tried to profile my Amp with a very clean sound and after playing around a lot I got the Profile near the Original Amp Sound. Then I tried to compare how the Sound changes when I crank up the Gain on the Amp compared to how it sound when I crank up the Gain from the Profile. I cranked the Gain a lot on both and of course I had to adjust the Volumes from the Signals so it should be easier to compare both Sound.
    And the Sound from the Profile didn't really sound ok. The Distortion sounded really bad.


    Is this a Common Problem or did I something wrong when I profiled the Amp?


    Every Tip and Trick is welcome related to profiling.


    Heavy Greetz

    You are profiling a clean sound, its not a good idea (normally) to crank the gain on the kemper, as it will artificially add the gain for you. and will not sound the same as the original amp.


    If you want a distorted sound, you need to crank the amp, and profile it that way..


    In short: - the Kemper will SNAPSHOT what you have setup, so adjust your amp, > Profile > Adjust some more > Profile.. etc etc,

    Thanks for the Answers.


    I thought that the Profiler may be able to simulate the Gain a bit better.


    Good to know that I should aim for the Sound I want and do Profiles for a lot of Gain Stanges and different Channels.


    Heavy Greetz

    Kinda what I expected but never really read something about that.


    Maybe this would be something for the Profiler of the Future where you profile every Gainstage and the Kemper makes a profile out of that. Including the Treble, Bass and Presence Knobs.


    Heavy Greetz

    In German in it would bei the eierlegende Wollmilchsau ;-)</p>


    Did another Profiling today and it's still kinda Pain in the Ass for me when profiling thru a somehow complex Setup like Mine.


    Maybe someone can tell me how they do a profile that matches the Original near to 100%. I find that my Signal (coming from the kemper to my Mixdesk) sound a bit warmer and less brilliant than the Original Miced Signal coming into the Mixdesk. Maybe it has something to do with the Connections I made but I am not sure.


    When you do a multimic Setup do you profile only a Mix from let's say 3 Mic's or do you also profile each Mic individually?


    That's what I have done today cause I was so used to record always 3 Mic's into my DAW and mix it later at Home


    Heavy Greetz

    i go with my mics to Focusrite saffire pro 40...like i would record in the DAW..sometimes i add even stuff i like on the track after some testrecordings ;)
    i create a send that goes to Kemper for profiling. When im happy i profile that chain...let it be single mic or blended....


    Dont know if that helps :)

    Quote from Deadlightstudio

    i go with my mics to Focusrite saffire pro 40...like i would record in the DAW..sometimes i add even stuff i like on the track after some testrecordings ;)
    i create a send that goes to Kemper for profiling. When im happy i profile that chain...let it be single mic or blended....


    Dont know if that helps :)


    I wish I could do it also that easy.


    I have to do all sort of crazy Routing to get it done in the Studio.


    I got a Focusrite 6 USB at Home at that's where I record most of the DI's which I later reamp in the Studio. You have done some pretty good Profiles I think. I am still looking for somethin good for the Death Metal Band from my Buddy.


    Heavy Greetz

    I'd be very interested in what magic tricks Andy, Armin or any other great profiler has up their sleeves.
    After taking over 100 profiles of my Seymour Duncan Convertible 100 I've found getting a great tone from the amp is first of course, then it's all in mic type and placement.
    Just a fraction of an inch movement can change the sound dramatically.
    Take lots of notes of every aspect of each profile so you can refer to them when something works well.
    Another thing is take breaks, give your ears a rest.
    You'll be surprised what you thought was good or bad will change after some time away from it.
    The more you do it the better you'll get.
    The beauty of the Kemper is it never gets old!


    Emilio

    Quote from ECma7

    I'd be very interested in what magic tricks Andy, Armin or any other great profiler has up their sleeves.


    Emilio


    No Tricks...Just art form. Good room, good Mics. that's all really. of course experience of how to use the equipment is the key really. - I mean, if you try to mic up in a bad room with GREAT mics then its a waste of time... you will get room reflections that will put the mic out of phase with itself, or at best give you a not so usable tone.....and then the mistakes will creep in. pushing the mic closer to the grill wont help then you unleash the nasty proximity effects, but on the flip side, bringing it back will then make it worse. leaving the mic more open to room reflections and deficits. - So add a EQ? sure... that will then eliminate all the reflections/bad energy etc. but then your left with a extreme sculpted tone. that is not really useable either...


    Dynamic mics are the best bet for home users in a cardioid pattern (or hyper cardioid)


    You will be really chasing your tail and compromising a lot on tone if you attempt anything great at home...
    My honest advice is to get a studio room booked for the day and drag your gear there. the results will be far greater. OR treat your own room with bass traps and acoustic tiles..


    2 things I rate important over anything else..GOOD MONITORING & ROOM is everything!!!..this sets the benchmark for whatever you do and will give you accurate results.


    Profiles, Add a EQ in the chain, so you can tame the proximity, Filter the lows/Highs if needed and remove any mud that builds up (if needed) normally around the 250-400k range I often add a -2/4db dip here to let the mic breath a little.


    Thats pretty much it.. so none of it is magic.. just knowing what is what, how to use it, where to place it, and how to profile it is key...


    Another way to look at it.. Anyone can make whatever they are doing sound great in the room they are in..but.. this then does not translate well to another persons room.. because well, they don't have YOUR room.and what you have done is adjust your settings to filter out any badness from your ROOM.. that in turn they wont have the same problems as you....resulting in a mismatch, and as I mention earlier. the only way to solve this mismatch is to have a Good room & monitoring..this way you know its at least accurate when its finished.


    Another thing.. You might do one at home, and think.. ya know that's not bad..but tracking with it, (layering multi guitars) the problems will then be a LOT More evident in the mix, and the overall mix will suffer.. once again having to notch out freq...this is most of the common problems with Home recording/mixing.. its never accurate, plus its normally too much work.. Great recorded instruments generally mix themselves with very little work..its why commercial mixes sound so full compared to home mixes.. "Home mixes are a lot of Corrective EQ" Commercial mixes are Creative EQ"..


    Having said that, there has been times that home mixes/recordings/profiles have been wonderful, if you have the talent, then it makes no odds..its all a life experience. and one everyone should attempt, but its not something you can learn overnight..


    Ok enough of my rambling.. you get the idea..


    Hey thanks for the detailed answer.


    I am not doing the Profiling here at home where I mostly mix stuff or do the Songwriting/PreProduction.


    We got a Room with 2 Drumsets where I do the Profiling. Of Course it's seperated from the Place where I monitor the Stuff. Yesterday I pulled a new cable so I can have the Amp in the Control Room and the Cabinet in the other One.
    The Room is a little treated so it should not compromise the sound too much. But I am not quite familar with the Monitor speakers there. They are way better than my Yamaha HS50 and have a much higher resolution. I have the feeling that my ears shut down much faster there.


    Mic placement is really tough for me sometimes cause I have to walk from one room in the other and try things out.


    Maybe I upload the last Profiles I have done and you guys can tell me if it's acceptable or bad. Unfortunately I didn't record the Signal directly from the Amp.
    For further Profiles I think I will use a DI so the Performance always stays the same.


    Is anybody from you having DI's to do the Profiling so there is no need to play the Guitar while dialing in the Tone or getting the Mic Positions right.


    Heavy Greetz

    yes combos can be a pain in the ass, I always prefer heads when I can as they can be in the control room.. combos are a lot of legwork
    Yes upload the profiles folks here will soon tell you if they are good or not..


    But for yourself, listen for the balance. needs to have the body/mid presence, decent amount of bottom, but not overmuch, and a good amount of top end but not to compromise the mids (and the body) i.e shrill.. - a good test I like to do..is play the open strings after profiling, can you hear each one clearly..picking lightly..if its just white noise then you have sacrificed something too much or not added enough...

    Quote from and44

    yes combos can be a pain in the ass, I always prefer heads when I can as they can be in the control room.. combos are a lot of legwork
    Yes upload the profiles folks here will soon tell you if they are good or not..


    But for yourself, listen for the balance. needs to have the body/mid presence, decent amount of bottom, but not overmuch, and a good amount of top end but not to compromise the mids (and the body) i.e shrill.. - a good test I like to do..is play the open strings after profiling, can you hear each one clearly..picking lightly..if its just white noise then you have sacrificed something too much or not added enough...


    By now I haven't still been able to teach my Ears and Brain to spot the Frequencies that are bugging Me. I think that the Engl Thunderhead and the 4x12 isn't really a good amp for that High Gain Sound I like.


    Maybe someone is willing to share some DI's which can be used to Dial in a Tone. I only got a cheaper Ibanez GIO with a Seymour Duncan Pickup and a Yamaha Drop 6 also with an SD Pickup. Would be interesting to have some really good DI's from a way better Guitar to make some Profiles. Not to mention a good Player.


    Next Year I will definetely spend more time doing some Profiles. In our Rehearsal Room is also an Engl Screamer and a Marshall Combo. Maye I will try to profile that. And I also wanted to profile a Hughes and Kettner Bass Amp from my Buddy.


    Heavy Greetz

    Huge thanks Andy for your rambling!
    I'll be profiling the Duncan Covertible all day Sunday.
    That thing gets a million different tones!
    I've got a decent room and monitors.
    I'll be using an SM7B, an old coveted Unidyne III SM57 and a Rode NT1000 thru a Golden Age Pre73.
    Once I sift through the pile of profiles I'll upload the good ones.
    Profiling is a lot like photography.
    The camera lens, like a mic, sees/hears a bit different than your eyes/ears.


    ECmaj7