About the new Remote and Looper Complaints......

    I think it would be useful to step back and get a little perspective.


    During the time that Kemper didn't have a foot controller of it's own, they worked very closely with Gordius, Liquid Foot, the Uno Chip people, RJM Mastermind, and others to provide support/technical help to help best integrate the various 3rd party controllers in a musician friendly way.


    They didn't have to do this. Heck, that cost them money that could have been spent on other features (of course it helped extend the market penetration....that's why they did it, no doubt - they are in business after all). They were interested in providing the best experience for the performing guitarist.


    It would be easy to make a case that to some extent, they were undercutting the eventual market for their own product.


    Now, for some reason (economics certainly being a factor), some of the very people they sought to help are ranting against them for not providing looper support for products that aren't even theirs. Wow. Really?


    I wonder how much the company has spent on support dollars (Euros) to troubleshoot control and connection issues for other company's controllers up to this point. It would have been really easy to say: "I'm sorry, but that's not our product, we don't support it".


    When I was at NAMM last year, I spoke with Christoph about a variety of Profiler related subjects and, of course, the Remote came up. I saw a rendering of what his vision of the final product would be, and it ended up being pretty much what I saw then.


    I asked about the price, and he mentioned that the design goal was $600US. He further indicated that others in the company thought that was too little to charge, and that the company wouldn't make enough money on it at that price. He said he didn't care, because it was his company, after all (and the bottom line profits - or lack thereof - are certainly his), and that he felt that more would be too much for the average musician.


    I wish that more of the people on this forum had the opportunity to meet CK. I don't believe that the vitriol would be flowing quite the way it is after having met, and spoken with the man.


    At this point, I'm just glad that he took time away from a very well respected brand - Virus Synths - to pursue the Kemper goal. I have had mine for several years now; and even though I loved it right away, the darned thing just keeps getting more useful/capable by the month. :thumbup:


    Let the flaming begin... X/

    Thank you very much for your perspective and your very balanced post.
    Meeting CK in person twice at the Musikmesse I totally share your sentiments.
    Great guy. Great vision and still down-to-earth.
    Ruhrgebiet qualities. (That's the area where Kemper gmbH is located).

    This statement is on the Kemper Profiler web site:


    "Traditional MIDI based foot controlers are also supported and pretty much every parameter can be controlled."

    I have had a Profiler for over a year, and in order to be useful live, required the purchase of a pedalboard to control it. To now change course and either require me to purchase a lesser pedalboard to get a significant feature or continue with my pedalboard without the feature is why I have a complaint with the policy, regardless of whether I had met Christoph or not. Kemper has promoted (and still is promoting) the use of 3rd party products with the Profiler, now to the possible detriment of their customers, in my opinion.

    Great post Dault!! I've not had the privilege to meet CK but one day hopefully I will. The Kemper is IMO the best piece of gear to ever be made. To me the price of the remote is exactly right. You don't need it to use the Kemper as there are plenty of 3rd party options available I've been using the FCB for 2 years now and it done everything i wamtes but I wanted the future proof intergration and the "one lead is all you need" feature ;) Kemper seems to be quite a small company to me but gives great customer service, I had a little blip with them the middle of last year but I think that was to do with the language barrier. CK Himself even got personally involved and tries to sort my issue to me this means alot
    There are not many companies you can talk to the guy who designed the product etc No one is forcing any one to buy the remote and again other than the looper you will be able to use the Kemper nearly just the same. I'm a lover of the kemper, the company and the whole business model. Im a fan boy and I'm Sure i will for a very long time.

    Well I respect your sentiment I do feel I have every right to be pissed off. Had Kemper not worked with other vendors to allow it's users to control the Kemper in the first place, I would have no argument, I also would have not bought the Kemper until there was an option to control it. With years of people asking when the remote would be released and with very little detail on it's planned functionality, what were we supposed to use to control our profilers live? Were we supposed to just keep pushing the buttons on the unit itself?


    I am not the type of person to opt for a cheap controller, hence I went the liquid foot route and to be honest I doubt very sincerely that it is not capable of controlling a looper. Maybe if I had bought a cheap controller I would fluff it off like others have.


    If this is not about making a profit then your point about undercutting their eventual market is invalid to me, the reality is that these other vendors helped to expand their market. Consider that if Kemper did not work with these other vendors, there would have been no remote control of our profilers, that obviously limits the appeal to the studio minded folks, since it is less a performance directed piece of gear otherwise. Was working with these vendors in their best interest, likely so, given that they had nothing of their own to offer.


    Now releasing their own version with exclusive features and deeming every other board on the market as unsupported, despite the likelihood that there are boards out there with a far greater feature set, it all seems like a really cheap way to treat your customers, and as one of those customers, I do have the right to feel that way, even if you do not agree :D


    I personally have not contacted Kemper for any tech related questions, so no money was spent on me there, I did however contact liquid foot several times.


    Anyway, the likeihood of Kemper catching on that they are alienating customers who had previously been extremely happy with their product, seems to be lost.


    Far greater boards on the market? Not to control the kemper in my opinion. We don't know what the remote is actually capable of yet. Like the KPA i'm sure new features will roll out as the FW's upgrade. And how you control the functions and ability of the KPA will probably very indepth. Let's just wait and see.

    Quote from daslave

    Now releasing their own version with exclusive features and deeming every other board on the market as unsupported, despite the likelihood that there are boards out there with a far greater feature set, it all seems like a really cheap way to treat your customers, and as one of those customers, I do have the right to feel that way, even if you do not agree


    They have deemed nothing as unsupported. They have no obligation and in my opinion have done nothing wrong developing a new product that enables enhanced functionality only available with the new product. This happens all the time in every aspect of new product development where you don't make every new feature available to every old setup.

    Wanting Kemper to give away the sink for third party support does clearly undercut their profit.
    And their profit isn't being supported by software development as firmware and accessories given to us for free.


    You can't keep expecting FREE and then expect Kemper to give away the keys to their intellectual property.


    I see Kemper supporting third-party controllers as filling the gap until they had their own. We pretty much ALL knew that, didn't we?

    Guys, I am not asking for anything for free, I am a paying customer just like the rest of you, I just do not understand why in all those pages about the KFC, no one from Kemper could have been transparent and let folks know that their plans involved this change in course to limiting features to their controller. We are only having this little exchange as a result of this lack in transparency. No where along the way had anyone ever eluded that the proposed controller would be the only way to control future features, so there was no way for folks like me to know this was the plan, their approach to working with other vendors paved the way for folks to end up questioning why they are now making this change.


    "Far greater boards on the market? Not to control the kemper in my opinion."


    What I meant was not limited to Kemper as in extremely flexible boards that can control tons of gear with tons of crazy functionality, clearly the remote is aimed more at being specific to the Kemper and less about what you want to do with the rest of your gear, not to say that it won't have some midi functionality but I doubt it will go as deep as the more expensive dedicated midi controllers.


    "They have deemed nothing as unsupported."


    Clearly they have stated that the looper will not be supported by any other controller, why not the option for non Kemper board users to pay a fee to gain the ability to use midi cc's to control the looper rather then expecting people to either go without the looper or to sell their current controller and buy a remote?


    Anyway, I am content for you guys to continue feeling Kemper is right and I am wrong, just don't tell me I need to gain perspective or attempt to invalidate my feelings and I will not post on your little chats or ruin your Kemper Remote warm and fuzzies lol :D

    I disagree on transparency. We were asked for user input a looong time ago and even given floor plans to choose from and vote on. And CK revealed his vision 2014 NAMM to Dlaut when he talked to him and reported it here. If anyone has direct questions about Kemper products and hasn't contacted Kemper directly to ask, well, that isn't lack of transparency. Thats lack of initiative in not using the website's "Contact" link. (or going to NAMM! ;)


    I do understand the frustration at hearing that a new effect for the Kemper may be out of the hands of April KPA owners and in the hands of April+ KPR owners. This could change though. We don't know what will be supported 6 months or a year from now. User demand may alter what may just be an initial marketing strategy to help the KPR rollout. Time will tell. When April comes, we will know what is going on better.

    I've been happy with my Kemper since I purchased it and I don't find any shortcomings with the product. Of course, the fact that the looper would be tied to the Remote sort of blindsided me, since I was telling a lot of folks very happily that Kemper would take care of us all, since the initial posts about the looper were that the feature will be included, rather than you will have to buy a separate product in order to access the looper.


    That said, there are a couple of things that I noted about the Remote, the first being that it does not seem to use a midi protocol for communication. That is likely a step forward in the right direction as far as the Kemper is concerned, since I believe the integration would be much tighter. This seems to be the basis of the argument forwarded by the company for the looper to be tied to the Remote.


    As far as advanced control of parameters, the final word is not yet out, not even with the Remote. I imagine that if the Remote is able to access these advanced functions, other floorboards should be able to do so. Then again, if the company's strategy is different, I could wind up with egg on my face again if I suggest that a Remote is not essential to control the Kemper.


    I sympathise with users that bought expensive floorboards, only to be told they might not get full functionality with them. There are pros to having a tightly controlled ecosystem for the Kemper, but there are also cons, since not everyone may find the limited options favourable. Hopefully, things will get clearer in the days ahead, but till the final word is out, I for one am not saying any more predictions.

    How far does a company have to go providing additional features before they charge for those? When hardware units never had the capacity to get upgrades people did not expect additional features. However, now that we can upgrade firmware people expect those extra features. And to be fair I think that the pricing of units now anticipates those extra features to some extent - so people have a right to expect some extra features after purchase - therefore those upgrades are not 'free' - they are built into the price to some extent.


    However, I do think a line has to be drawn somewhere. It really is the question where?? Not an easy answer.


    Personally for the price of the unit I know there are bugs that need dealing with and I would prefer they were dealt with as a priority. Secondly considering the purpose of the unit I would like some additional FX than what we have (e.g. more varied reverbs and delays ala axe fx) and flexibility in the routing of those fx (putting the fx loop in the delay or reverb slot for example). Even a fully featured PC editor ala axe edit.


    I am not sure I would be lobbying for a looper as a non paid for entitlement - it is just not that important to me or the core of what this unit is about - fundamentally the unit should be about killer amps/fx and routing flexibility. A looper is not something I expected as an upgrade in the future but I did expect more fx and routing options to be added as the unit became more mature. Therefore I think that this argument over the entitlement to a looper upgrade (as opposed to paying for it via a remote purchase) is not where energy should be focused at present. Ultimately I am more concerned about the unit being an amp and fx powerhouse with ironed out bugs than being able to record a 30 second loop (and that is not aimed at upsetting you avid loopers out there - I mean this as a focus on where we can draw the line considering our expectations when we originally purchased the unit).


    What bugs are you talking about. I have no bugs a present. I brought my KPA on what the unit had to offer at present. I did not think to my self I'll buy this hoping that they add this and that later on. I wanted a piece of equipment that gave me the tone of a real amp. This is what the kemper does so I'm happy. But when they add extra features I'm even happier. :)

    http://www.kemper-amps.com/for…stomps-new-kemper-rack-o/?


    This issue has not been rectified and is acknowledged as an issue by Kemper. There may be others.


    I accept that you buy a unit with the present features but we all know that in this competitive world that some extra features are expected to be added during the products lifecycle. For example - apple upgrade their operating system and add extra features. Considering this is a premium fx and amp unit there are some extra features you expect to add to that - i.e improved fx, smooth switching between fx and routing possibilities. I do not expect a looper personally.

    Quote from endlessnameless

    Severe Noise problems - glitching warbling when switching stomps new kemper rack owner?


    This issue has not been rectified and is acknowledged as an issue by Kemper. There may be others.


    I accept that you buy a unit with the present features but we all know that in this competitive world that some extra features are expected to be added during the products lifecycle. For example - apple upgrade their operating system and add extra features. Considering this is a premium fx and amp unit there are some extra features you expect to add to that - i.e improved fx, smooth switching between fx and routing possibilities. I do not expect a looper personally.


    I think now the remote is on it's way the bug you mention about above will be sorted. I think kemper team will now concentrate more on this as they now know the exact protocol for the stomps and and how this all works inside the KPA and with the remote. I'm no tech savey person but this is just my take on things.

    Quote from Dlaut

    I asked about the price, and he mentioned that the design goal was $600US.


    So.....you knew all along?!!!!!!! You are a bad man Mr Dlaut. You didnt tell us. :evil:
    He tells somebody, at random, the pricing, even though the boards were on fire with conjecture what it may be?
    Did he tell you to keep your lip zipped or what?


    Busted!


    As far as the looper goes. I am in understanding of both camps.


    I am not sure which is right or wrong (if there is such a thing) but I have to say it can be a little hard to swallow, for some, knowing that the Kemper itself has this feature built in for the most part. That is not too hard to understand.


    Now if it was a hardware installation in the remote I would be entirely in the Kemper company camp. They could say, hey we are offering a pedal effect with the remote. This is truly the only way you can get this because the hardware is in the remote.


    Hey, I am all for a company making money. I am self employed so I understand. No profit, no company, no product.


    I do not understand how the hardware and software work in the Kemper.


    From what is existing with the hardware, can new software be written for NEW effects? If this is true, by all means charge for it.


    On the other hand, is there a bit of hardware in the Kemper just for a looper? If so this is where that line gets a bit thin. I could say, hey I already paid for that bit of hardware especially if it does nothing else for the Kemper. Even though you may have not written it into the software yet.


    Either way, it is what it is and your wallets will show your approval or disdain.

    Right or wrong, I opened mine but like I said before I can be a dumbass at times.


    Boy I cant wait though.......waiting for that brown truck or whoever is delivering it !