Trying to make a direct profile

    Reading the addendum, when making a profile directly from a preamp or power amp, Kemper should detect no speaker, and assign a blank preset to cab parameter (id I understand it correctly).


    I am trying to create a few preamp profiles, going into the input of my amp, and coming out of the FX send to the Kemper return. I then have the monitor output going to the FX return of the amp, and into guitar cab.


    Problem is, Kemper is still thinks I'm profiling a mic and speaker, then actually adds a bunch of high end when I play through the monitor out, but sounds like the original direct profile when the monitor cab is turned back on.....and it is creating a speaker profile even though there is no speaker or power amp used in the profiling process.


    Is there an indicator that the Kemper recognizes a direct profile? Or is there a way to select specifically that I want to create a direct profile?


    Thanks,



    EDIT: I was able to make a direct profile of my JTM-45 going from the line out of my attenuator. It turns off the cab portion of the stack automatically.


    Not sure why profiling the preamp didn't work. I was using a TS-808 clone. Maybe that confused the profiler? Will keep trying.

    Edited once, last by bigtoe ().

    +1
    How to activate “Direct Profile” while in a “Profiler Mode”???


    Addendum says KPA will automatically turn off Cab while profiling. But I failed to create DirectProfile…


    How to force KPA to switch from StudioProfilig to DirectProfiling mode???

    +1


    I'm having the same problem. Running out of the speaker output of a Marshall into a load box, then taking a line output from the load box back into the Kemper. The Kemper still includes a cabinet in the resulting profile. I wish there was a way to tell the Kemper that you're doing a DI so it doesn't mistakenly assume you have a cabinet when you don't. It appears I have no way to make a DI profile?


    -Jimi

    Quote from Jimi71

    +1


    I'm having the same problem. Running out of the speaker output of a Marshall into a load box, then taking a line output from the load box back into the Kemper. The Kemper still includes a cabinet in the resulting profile. I wish there was a way to tell the Kemper that you're doing a DI so it doesn't mistakenly assume you have a cabinet when you don't. It appears I have no way to make a DI profile?


    -Jimi


    Hi Jimi - Ben here ..... firstly, love your profiles !!! :)


    Secondly, and this has nothing directly to do with issue ...... but from my reading of the 3.0 Direct profiling procedure ..... the only way to properly capture a fully and properly Head-Cab separated Direct Profile is to


    - run from the Amp head speaker out -> into an appropriate DI [ ie: Behringer Ultra G, ART Direct .....etc.... being a DI with no speaker emulation of any kind ]
    - then take the Direct Out signal in to the Kemper
    - and at the same time, feed the DI through signal to the speaker box *without* any sort of "load" of *any type*


    This way, the Direct Profile gets not only the fully cranked head output but also the actual-real-speaker-impedance-effect in it too ......


    I could be wrong though :(


    Either way, again, huge thanks for your awesome profilesand I'll definitely be grabbing any Direct profiles you may release :)


    Ben

    Quote from Deadlightstudio

    Direct Profile = full amp without cab/mic


    As i understand it, Bigtoe intended to make a preamp profile and called it direct profile, because that is the name that was used for that kind of profiles ever since the beginning on rig exchange. Profiles from the speaker out are called direct amp profile.


    Direct Profile = Preamp profile. Some people use them with their guitar power amps. They exist next to full amp profiles. Taken from loop send/after preamp. The question if they should occupy just the amp section or the whole profile is something Kemper hasn't worked on yet, obviously, and therefore the process that tells cab and amp apart can't detect a preamp signal correctly. That's why the auto detect didn't work with Bigtoes profile and the cab section got occupied.


    Direct Amp Profile = What Deadlightstudio spoke of: Profile from the speaker out that contains the full amp signal. Can be detected by the Kemper and automatically gets reduced to the amp section. At least that's how it should be.

    Before 3.0 :
    Direct Profiles (preamp only) have always used both the amp and cabinet blocks of the Stack section. They are intended to be used as is, into an amplifier and speaker cabinet.


    Swapping in a Kemper cabinet couldn't provide results like a real amp with one of these profiles, because the sound of a preamp + a guitar cabinet + microphone would be missing the sound of an amplifier.


    A 3.0 version is below, in another post :)

    Are you using firmware 3.0? It should auto detect the preamp profile. Once it is done profiling it automatically turns the cabinet off. 3.0 is the first non-beta to do this I think.


    3.0 seems to have improved preamp profiling. Just finished profiling a TriAxis rhythm green several times and it sounds just like the preamp for the first time. Cab was off after each profiling.

    3.0 answer:


    @fisbus is correct about how Direct Profiles are supposed to work in 3.0. Both Direct Profiles and Direct Amplifier Profiles are intended to be auto-detected by the KPA, and the cabinet section will not be part of the profile.


    From the 3.0 Reference Manual:
    "A Direct Profile will be taken by feeding the output of the reference device directly into the RETURN INPUT of the Profiler, rather than capturing the sound by microphone. No further preparation is needed. During the process, the Profiler will automatically detect the character of a Direct Profile and disable the Cabinet Module accordingly."


    But: I've read in threads about a Known Issue with auto-detect not always detecting a non-studio profile.

    Quote from Jimi71

    +1


    I'm having the same problem. Running out of the speaker output of a Marshall into a load box, then taking a line output from the load box back into the Kemper. The Kemper still includes a cabinet in the resulting profile. I wish there was a way to tell the Kemper that you're doing a DI so it doesn't mistakenly assume you have a cabinet when you don't. It appears I have no way to make a DI profile?


    -Jimi


    which loadbox are you using?
    does it put the speaker signal through to a guitar cab, or are you using it as a dummy load?


    it is strongly recommended to use a DI box that puts the speaker signal through to a cabinet while providing the very same signal without filtering as a line level signal on another output.
    loadboxes will never give you an accurate representation of the power amp/speaker interaction.


    if you feel you provided the Profiler with a proper DI signal and it didn't detect it, please contact me, I'd like to take a look at this profile.


    thank you! :)

    Quote from paults

    Direct Profiles (preamp only) have always used both the amp and cabinet blocks of the Stack section. They are intended to be used as is, into an amplifier and speaker cabinet.


    Swapping in a Kemper cabinet couldn't provide results like a real amp with one of these profiles, because the sound of a preamp + a guitar cabinet + microphone would be missing the sound of an amplifier.


    That's why i said Kemper hasn't thought about that yet. You are right, that's how the direct profiles were treated up to now. But, as with the direct amp profiles and studio profiles before, it is thinkable that in future you substract a direct profile from a direct amp profile and get seperate preamp/poweramp sections. You could even do that with the microphone part, if you find a way to profile the characteristics of a microphone. You could have the chain Stomps/Preamps/Poweramps/Cabs/Microphones all profiled from real and all freely combinable. Maybe we don't need all of that but that's the direction in which this new technology goes and men like toys ;)

    Update from earlier comments.


    Did some more profiles of the TriAxis preamp yesterday and on some higher gain profiles the cab remained on when the profiling finished. However it would automatically shut off after refining.


    So in this case the KPA recognized the direct profile during refinement and not the initial profile.

    I'm having a problem creating a direct amp profile, from a Marshall Major. The Major's speaker output is connected to a power attenuator, the TAD Silencer. I take the TAD Silencer's Line Out and connect that to the return input of the Kemper. But I always get the error message that the amp is too noisy... I reduced to gain to a minimum. Also reduced the return input level on the Kemper to a minimum. Still got the error message! Help! Anybody got a similar experience making a direct amp profile?

    Some attenuators still have a pretty hot line out signal, and may be too much according to how much the power section on the amp is being driven.


    Also remember for the best direct amp profile you will want a speaker hooked up and have a DI tap into the signal between the amp and speaker. This will profile the interaction between the two. Load boxes do not give this interaction and don't sound the same.

    Hi fisbus,
    Thanks for your answer.
    The DI is the attenuator (TAD Silencer), which can function either as a load box, either as a DI with load on the speaker. I use it as the DI. So it's hooked up between the speaker output of the amp and the speaker. And I still hear the signal in the speaker, so that there is this important interaction. But the Line Out signal of the DI box is too hot. I tried putting it to a minimum, but it's still too loud... Very weird...


    My Koch LB120-ii does that though :/ (line level, unfiltered output, whilst also simultaneously feeding a cab..)

    CURRENT:
    (FLOOR) Kemper Remote w/ Mission exp + EB VP
    (RACK) Kemper PowerRack

    Don't know what my comment above was even trying to explain reading it back but oh well...!






    I'm going to start doing a merged profile in the next day or so and am looking for advice...


    If the line out from the loadbox is going to the KPA return then why does the signal also need to carry on and be fed to the guitar speaker cabinet (as any mic in-front of the cab won't be plugged into the Profiler anyway as the previous mentioned cable will be taking up that socket...and thus, won't be able to provide the Profiler with the pre/post cabinet picture for it to subtract the cabinet from the Profile 'chain/image')



    Secondly, I'm seeing mention of Direct Profiles and Direct Amp Profiles above... Is it safe/does it work to profile the pre-amp in the way described (FX send & return going to/from Kemper)? im guessing you just need to have a load connected still obviously, but does this profile the pre-amp accurately?

    CURRENT:
    (FLOOR) Kemper Remote w/ Mission exp + EB VP
    (RACK) Kemper PowerRack

    Edited 3 times, last by nEVH5150 ().