Profiling with more than 1 mic?

Simply use a mixer before the KPA return when creating profiles. You can use as many mics as you like this way.

Quote from b_ryan

Is it possible to profile a rig using more than 1 mic? I have searched everywhere, but haven't found an answer yet.

page 14 of the Profiling Guide:
"For example, if you want to use several microphones with your reference amp, you should route the signals of these microphones to a subgroup of your mixer, and then route the output of that subgroup directly to the profiling input. You can use the EQ and phase switches on the mixer to optimize the mix."

hth

Quote from b_ryan

I guess you're right. I just thought that there was a better way internally or something. But I guess it works. Thanx.

Yeah, that'd be nice, but then you'd have to have multiple ports to plug in mics, and the Kemper would also have to supply phantom power to be of any use.

If you have an audio interface (most people that record at home do - if you don't have one, you can probably borrow one), more than likely you can change its routing to output the main out (if it doesn't have dedicated outs) to the Kemper (in mono, of course, so, an easy trick is to just use either the left or right output, and use balance to adjust how much of each mic comes through). You might need a direct box if it only has balanced outs, but that shouldn't be a major issue (again, if you don't have one, you can probably borrow one).

Not possible, dude!

Quote from b_ryan

I wait until Kemper makes it possible internally. That would be amazing.

no offense, but if the simple task of summing two mic signals is what's keeping you from using multiple mics then maybe you shouldn't attempt multi-mic'ing in the first place.
Summing is the only relatively easy part about it, everything else (choice of mics, choice of speaker, positioning, levels, eqs etc.) is really quite ambitious compared to that.

Quote from b_ryan

I wait until Kemper makes it possible internally. That would be amazing.

An "internal" implementation is not possible without new hardware. There's only one XLR port. You'd be talking about a Kemper 2.0, and that's not coming anytime soon.

Quote from DonPetersen

no offense, but if the simple task of summing two mic signals is what's keeping you from using multiple mics then maybe you shouldn't attempt multi-mic'ing in the first place.
Summing is the only relatively easy part about it, everything else (choice of mics, choice of speaker, positioning, levels, eqs etc.) is really quite ambitious compared to that.

I completely agree. It's not a difficult task, but one that takes time to set up. You certainly don't want two mics coming in with a summing cable, as one will certainly be hotter than the other. That's the purpose of using a mixer or an interface - you can say "I want 100% of the SM57, but only about 30% of the room condenser, as it's too airy at 100%." And supplying phantom power to a SM57 will surely destroy the microphone. IMO, dynamic microphones (such as the SM57) have their place, but they shouldn't be the sole mic'ing strategy for recording anything. An SM57 is thrown on almost every guitar recording ever, but different mics provide different levels, clarity, punch, and EQ curves. More than likely, a great recording of a tube amp, or, for our purposes, a great profile, will often implement 2-3 mics in different placements, so more of the sonic spectrum is covered.

That said, you can still get a fantastic sound out of a single dynamic mic, but, with only one mic, you have to make absolutely, 100% sure the mic placement is perfect, otherwise it'll result in a horrible mess. Don't worry too much about using multiple mics if you don't have the facilities to do so; you can still make a fantastic profile with some time and trial and error.

Not only possible with multiple mics, but with multiple amps. I have several profiles with a combination of a clean and distorted amp both mic'd and summed together using a mixer.

Quote from b_ryan

Probably not. But what I would like though is a way to be able to combine the two mics AFTER the profiling. That way you are not stuck with one sound. Oh...I need more SM57 than the Sennheiser mic. You cannot do that now if you use a mixer pre Kemper.

If I understand this correctly, I think what you're getting at is this:

1. Mic up an amp from X different positions
2. Capture the profile from each microphone at the same time, but store them individually within the parameters of one profiled rig
3. After refining is complete, add an additional selection to blend microphone 1 and microphone 2

That's not how you came across - you came across as "profile an amp with two mics," which is only possible via a mixer. There is currently no blending functionality. This would be a nice addition, but I fear the DSP isn't powerful enough to support it, as you'd basically be running two profiles simultaneously.

Considering there is no way, without a mixer, audio interface, or some sort of mixing/summing device to handle this, your options (solution) are as follows:
1. Profile an amp with one mic direct from the Kemper (which makes phantom powered mics out of the question), and create the profiles you wish with each mic.
2. Profile an amp with multiple mics, using some sort of mixer. This will allow you the option to use phantom powered mics as well (i.e. you can use condensers and ribbon mics). You can then create a profiles that are solely individual mics (mute all except the one you want), as well as create mixed versions of those profiles with multiple mics.

This is how pretty much everyone does it right now. When buying a profile pack from a store, you'll often get 1 amp with a few different settings, and multiple profiles of that same amp and cab combo with different mics - both single (e.g. an SM57 off-axis, etc.) and combinations. Depending on the profile seller, you might get just one mic. You might get the same settings with one mic and different cabs. You might get different settings with multiple mics and one cab. It really depends, but they all, more or less, follow this same strategy.

I wouldn't place a lot of hope in something like you're suggesting being done in the future, at least not with the Kemper hardware as it stands today. I think it's personally a brilliant idea, but I'm pretty positive the DSP cannot handle running more than one profile at once, and this would be running two and mixing them.

Quote from DonPetersen

page 14 of the Profiling Guide:
"For example, if you want to use several microphones with your reference amp, you should route the signals of these microphones to a subgroup of your mixer, and then route the output of that subgroup directly to the profiling input. You can use the EQ and phase switches on the mixer to optimize the mix."

... and therein lie the potential traps.

IMHO, the OP would be far better off using just one mic; placement, including orientation, is stupendously critical to the final outcome.

The one-mic approach is the only one that almost guarantees you'll get past the classic phase-traps, and make for fuller, more coherent-sounding profiles, IMHO.

Don's pointing towards the EQ and phase switches was pertinent because as soon as one adds a second mic, phase cancellation starts to be introduced. There may not be much as it can be minimised (by ensuring, for example, that both mics are set up exactly the same distance from the speaker cone), but it's a matter of degree and it cannot be eliminated altogether. Once it's in your profile, you're stuck with it.

My single biggest beef with the profiles on the RE is that it's tricky to find "phase-free" rigs as I'm super-sensitive to (phase) cancellation...

Quote from Monkey_Man

My single biggest beef with the profiles on the RE is that it's tricky to find "phase-free" rigs as I'm super-sensitive to (phase) cancellation...

[OT]
how do you like Pure Cabinet, then?
[/OT]

Different tech and approach to solving the modelling problem, my friend. There's a reason why most people who try the Kemper won't go back to Line 6...

(ps @ckemper once stated it can't be done, anyway)

It could be good to use two mics, perhaps you could capture the room, or would it mess up the profile of there was an element of reverb in it?