Tone Suck In FX Loop - Anyone else notice this?

    So I tried a range of Delays and Modulation pedals in the mono FX loop in a slot post amp. However, I notice that there is noticeable tone degradation when I engage the FX loop. The delays and mods sound MUCH better when I place them after the Kemper. So Kemper output> delay /mod pedal.


    My conclusion is that the FX Loop is sucking tone and feel. This was brought up in another thread about a year ago.


    There was a theory that this was due to an additional stage of d/a - a/d conversion required when you take the signal out and back into the Kemper. This makes sense to me.


    My suspicion is that the quality of the conversion in the FX loop in is not as high as the instrument input on the front - in a similar way to the fact that the alternative input is noisier and not as hig quality as the instrument input.


    Has anyone else noticed the fx loop sucking tone and managed to work around it?


    Could you do an experiment - if you use your reverb or delay pedal - strymon, dd20 etc in the loop - try putting it after the kemper and see how it sounds.


    I am going to try putting a patch cable across the loop to test it 'dry' and see if it is really affecting tone.

    I am using my TC. G-Force in the FX Loop, and the loop have to be set at 100% but i feel a big volumedrop! I cant stand the boxy sound of the Kemper Reverb, and have not found any nice dely either! I realy wish Kemper do some modification and put in some deasent and well known reverb/delay from TC, Eventide or Line6, and in stomp section!

    BTW make sure your direct out is NOT set to direct out!
    there is a bug in the loop when it is set to that. It is confirmed by Kemper. Set it to gtr+processing or off.

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

    I'm running an Eventide H9 in the loop (post amp), and haven't had any issues with tone loss or volume drops. Before I bought the H9 I was using a Timefactor and Space, and again no issues. Some effects (usually stomp boxes) are designed for instrument-level signals, and don't play well with line-level effects loops at all (I had this problem with a BOSS DD-3).

    Hi all - thanks for your input -I am using stomp boxes so it may be that the loop is designed for rack gear or quasi rack stuff like the H9.


    I was flicking though the system menu and noticed one called 'Loop Level Adj' - it was set to 5db so I turned it to 0db and I think it may have helped. Although I could be hearing things??

    Quote from DonPetersen


    did you try this?
    and what is your Direct Out set to?


    thanks


    Not tried this yet - will do - also Direct Out is set to gtr+processing


    I noticed that in firmware 3.1 they added the loop adj parameter - it appears to be in response to this type of thing as the loop was hitting a lot of pedals very hot.

    I have to say I dont understand nothing.. is there a bug in the loop??? I have found the loop volume, but still its a big volume drop when i activate the loop. where do i find these settings for the loop? at first i used stereo loop, but changed to mono loop, who worked better.
    i wish Kemper could make desent reverb and dely so it would not be nessesary for me to use external...until now my dely and reverb come from TC

    Quote from Morty

    I have to say I dont understand nothing.. is there a bug in the loop???


    Yes. If direct out is set to mono it can cause erratic behavior of the loop volume. I had it in my rig and it's been acknowledged. That is why Don asked for the direct out settings. (I presume)

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

    If the direct out is set to analog, it can cause artifacts when switching the loop. However, it does not change the sound quality of the loop.


    So did anyone do the cable test?
    When you do the effects loop by just one cable instead of the external effects unit, you can well test the qualtiy and volume of the profiler hardware.


    If you still got problems, please post audio clips.

    I did the cable test when i was troubleshooting the other problem. Plus i have my lead channel attenuator sitting in the loop. No tone suck whatsoever here.

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

    Quote from ckemper

    If the direct out is set to analog, it can cause artifacts when switching the loop. However, it does not change the sound quality of the loop.


    So did anyone do the cable test?
    When you do the effects loop by just one cable instead of the external effects unit, you can well test the qualtiy and volume of the profiler hardware.


    If you still got problems, please post audio clips.


    Thanks. I will do the cable test when I can get around the back of the unit. Christoph does the loop adj parameter added in 3.1 have anything to do with it? I thought the issue could be down to the loop out hitting certain FX pedals too hot. I played with it (lowered the value) and think I heard an improvement.