So I bought an Axe Fx Ax8 and I have been profiling my preset as I make them...

    So we have two choices then Monkey Man, either hundreds of world class players, engineers, techies, and producers all have become attuned to the artifacts and never heard them even on first listen or they don't exist. According to Occams Razor, the latter is true. Sure folks can become attuned to a certain sound and accept the deficiencies but not these folks. They are trained to listen critically. They hear stuff you can't that's why they tour the world and you and I argue on forum boards.You are simply mistaken in your reasoning and attempt to belittle a fine product so you feel better about your choice. That is a far more common phenomena than your little theory above. Product bias based on your individual choice...period.


    You can't explain the massive popular appeal of this product away with "everyone's wrong". Too many golden ears in the equation. These people have the best amps in the world. They listen back and forth. Unlike you and I they create million selling works of art and pack arenas.



    Although your theory does explain why none of you hear the lack of low end or overall muddiness to the Kemper. (just playing with you)

    You're beating a dead horse man. There are a group of guys here who will stop at nothing to denigrate the Axe product. Just like some guys at Fractal who do the same to the Kemper. They will claim to hear stuff nobody else can. Joe Bonammasa could start using either and someone would say "That's because he's deaf now" or some other absurdity. Monkey Mans theorem was ridiculous at best. Like I stated, there are too many golden ears using these things. Let Monkey Man or Dean post their credentials against those I posted and tell me who you think might have a better understanding of producing great musical sounds.

    I am not wanting to alienate anyone. If what I perceive is incorrect I hope someone could with fact and tact point me in the right direction.


    I am not here to argue. Only present and debate. For me quoting names and experience proves nothing as these people are paid to do what they do and will do whatever they are paid to do regardless if they feel it's ideal.


    For me the horse isn't dead, just misunderstood.


    Deadpan:


    You did an awesome job. The way I see it, you (deadpan) can get good sound from anything because you have skills. The issue the way I see it is that most modelers are capable nowadays, but they don't do what the kemper does in realism and feel. That's what's needed for an inspired performance. If you enjoy the sound and feel, you play better, then if you re-amp, sure you'll get most modelers to sound the same but non of them will give you the KPA feel and the extra quality.


    The little bit of extra quality goes a long way if you're going to stack multiple tracks, because those little inferiority in realism can add up significantly in the same way noise can add up. In this sense the KPA is in a league of it's own (again based on my personal opinion.)

    https://soundcloud.com/dean_r-138527994/11-rack-single-track

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    deadpan:


    This is a re-amp using Eleven Rack and I have to say, to my ears the Eleven Rack sounds easily better than the AXE FX II. Have you ever tried Eleven Rack. The sweet spot is definitely not as that of the Kemper, but it's very easy finding a sweet spot using Eleven, but you're most likely stuck there.On the other hand AXE FX II or AX8 are certainly not better than Eleven Rack based on my first hand comparison.


    Again the KPA is a different story and for me it feels and sounds better which, to me, justified the price jump, but I couldn't justify the price Jump (for amp models only) From Eleven to AXE FX II, because as you can see or maybe hear , I can get many of the amp sound that I use, in a similar quality from Elven to that of the AXE FXII , I couldn't do that when it came to Kemper so I purchased the KPA and stopped worrying about AMP modeling. I have the Eleven right now and believe me if I could have made work fo give me inspired playing, I wouldn't have spent the Extra money for the KPA. But that's only my personal experience as I'm keenly aware that many pros are using the AXE FXII, but I personally don't buy gear based on artists endorsement for obvious reasons that might not be obvious to many.


    How would you compare the AXE II with Eleven Rack?


    thanks,


    Dean

    Quote from zentman

    ....Let Monkey Man or Dean post their credentials against those I posted and tell me who you think might have a better understanding of producing great musical sounds.


    The difference between us is you buy products based on Artist's endorsement, and I buy them based on trying them first hand! So let's hypothetically say that if I told you I played on platinum records, this will change your opinion of the Kemper and the guitars that I use should all the sudden become better guitars? 8o


    Well don't let me stop you from buying into artist's endorsement and advertising, but I let you in on a secret "Artist endorsement means crap and it falls into promotion and advertising" . Keep that a secret please as some companies might not be able to survive if everyone finds out that advertising is fiction for the feeble minds who are unable to judge for themselves.

    Quote from deadpan

    I do have to say Dean that I would prefer you said your opinion up front. My feelings will not be hurt.


    deadpan:
    My opinion has always been that many if not all modelers nowadays can be made to sound great and print quality on records in the right hands, I've always said that. In the digital world though my understanding is the gap between how different people respond to different frequencies is very significant . That was very specific in how patients or humans respond to music therapy, some don't respond to certain frequencies and the absence of certain frequencies, that was never and issue to analog devices.


    To my ears the KPA is the only digitial device that accurately resembles analog in regards to AMP tones.



    To my ears the AXE FXII has always had this artificiality super hi-fi quality that I didn't respond to very well regardless of how many artists or guitar players had it in hi regards. Again this is must my honest opinion without any regard to political correctness.

    Nooooo.... not the Morgan.... anything but the Morgan! LOL


    Hey, why not man? It'll be good practice for you, 'pan-man.


    PS: If only you'd been here with me, you could have saved my staying up all night with your clear head! It was a great relief to delete that post. I s'pose it kinda confirms the old belief that writing something down and then destroying it can be of great help.

    deadpan:
    quick question: does the AXE 8 have "tone match" same as the AXE II? Another question would be if it doesn't have tone match but, let's say you go to Fractal forum and happen to find a "tone match" of an AC30 that utilized one signal path, which should be same as AX8, would you be able to play that on your AX8?
    When I was in the market 6 months ago, I don't remember finding "tone matches" of amps that were worth mentioning and not in the number I would have expected.


    I thought there would be many tone matches but since there wasn't many, I presumed it was just a marketing gimmick to compete with the KPA.


    That would be really cool if that "tone match" actually worked where it would save you the time and effort of relying on your ears that could become fatigued if the process is prolonged and mundane!

    Edited once, last by Dean_R ().

    Thanks guys!


    I will attempt the AC30 patch soon.


    The AX8 doesn't have tone match unfortunately, or a multiband compressor which I really wish it did!


    I believe it is Eq matching that is applied on top of an amp. It is my belief that you could then set the Axe up to respond similarly.


    This is to show how real the Axe can sound. Really I can hear burning tubes in here!


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    And I made a profile :)



    I am part of no circle jerk.
    I never claimed either unit better than the other.
    I even said I have never seen, heard, or played an Axe so I could never judge or even give an informed opinion.


    Now I did listen to Carrie Underwoods band, It was your run of the mill pop/ country. She sings just fine but she sounds like most of the rest of these girl bands, Nothing that stands out, Sounds like all of the rest of the created star bands,
    Just another one for the teenage girls.

    Quote from deadpan

    This is to show how real the Axe can sound. Really I can hear burning tubes in here!


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    And I made a profile :)


    Share the profile or it didn't happen. LOL


    Seriously, dead-man, that was better again for me - much better; only a little plink evident towards the end, and way less plasticky to boot. Honestly mate, well done! You can tweak, brother.


    At some point we're gonna have to hit you up for a batch of profiles, man. Maybe once you've developed a bit of an arsenal? At the rate you're going it shouldn't be long before you've a nice little collection going.


    Again, well done!


    EDIT: Edited to remove the dreaded "</p>" stuff..

    Quote from deadpan

    I reamped the track twice, first with no compression and second with slight compression added in the Axe.


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    I actually prefer this to the KPA clip.


    Not bad, but the KPA definitely sounds better (especially on the less gainy parts).

    @deadman: Do you have equipment/knowledge to create IRs? I did make some samples with the Helix some month ago where I took an IR of the Kemper Cab to match the 2 devices. Works really good and got the units close.
    I bought the AX8 too and have been playing with it the last days. Fun device to play with, sounds really good :) To sum it up: it's easier to get a good sound in the KPA (just take one of the 38924 profiles from some studio guys), I find it easier to get MY sound in the AX8 though - but that's because I don't have the skills to take profiles (then the Kemper would win easily)... nor do I have any amps left, sold them all after getting the Kemper years ago :D I like the form factor of the AX8 very much, I hope there will be a Kemper Floorboard sometimes too!

    MJT Strats / PRS Guitars / Many DIY Guitars -- Kemper Profiler Rack / Kemper Remote / InEar