Annoying frequency on ALL (???) amps physical/digital SOLVED!!!! (sort of, at least)

    Quote from amclw1

    Apologies if this has been mentioned already (still reading through), but over-enthusiastic palm muting can cause boomy bass sounds in the background. Lighter touch required.


    EDIT: OK I've caught up and it appears to be a general amp characteristic that the Kemper is reproducing accurately. So why does it not appear in more commercial recordings? What is the recording engineer doing to dial it out?

    If you have followed the thread, it's now obvious that you cannot really "dial it out" after it's recorded.


    Schreckmusic had to carefully set the gain and amp volume to find a spot where it doesn't produce "windtunnel" noise on hard hits.

    I know you find the "windtunnel" sound annoying, it could be useful for certain songs though....


    • “Windy” — The Association. ...
    • “She's Like The Wind” — Patrick Swayze. ...
    • “Candle In The Wind” — Elton John. ...
    • “Blowin' In The Wind” — Bob Dylan. ...
    • “Ride Like The Wind” — Christopher Cross. ...
    • “Wind Beneath My Wings” — Bette Midler. ...
    • “Blown Away” — George Harrison. ...
    • “Dust In The Wind” — Kansas.
      :thumbup:


      P

    Quote from Cederick

    If you have followed the thread, it's now obvious that you cannot really "dial it out" after it's recorded.
    Schreckmusic had to carefully set the gain and amp volume to find a spot where it doesn't produce "windtunnel" noise on hard hits.


    So is this lesson one at recording school? "How to remove the wind tunnel noise when recording high gain guitar?"

    Quote from amclw1

    Apologies if this has been mentioned already (still reading through), but over-enthusiastic palm muting can cause boomy bass sounds in the background. Lighter touch required.


    EDIT: OK I've caught up and it appears to be a general amp characteristic that the Kemper is reproducing accurately. So why does it not appear in more commercial recordings? What is the recording engineer doing to dial it out?

    Based on the spectrographs earlier, its the bass harmonics. In commercial recordings it's normal to use a hi-pass on guitars to eliminate everything under 100 at the very least if not all the way up to 400 and leave the lower frequencies to the (usually cleaner or transistor amp driven) bass guitar. Basically there are no low frequencies to "boom".

    Quote from Per

    Based on the spectrographs earlier, its the bass harmonics. In commercial recordings it's normal to use a hi-pass on guitars to eliminate everything under 100 at the very least if not all the way up to 400 and leave the lower frequencies to the (usually cleaner or transistor amp driven) bass guitar. Basically there are no low frequencies to "boom".

    That is VERY genre-dependent (and very much dependent on the source material, guitar's role in the mix, arrangement etc.)


    In any case, the noise is all the way past 300 Hz. During my own experimentation with the tracks cederick uploaded I found the best results were with a low shelf in combination with a bell at around 300. Didn't completely remove it, though. In a full mix, masking might make it better still.

    Quote from amclw1

    So is this lesson one at recording school? "How to remove the wind tunnel noise when recording high gain guitar?"

    No, it's almost more audiable on some mid-gain amps rather than all-out metal high distortion amps.





    Quote from Per

    Based on the spectrographs earlier, its the bass harmonics. In commercial recordings it's normal to use a hi-pass on guitars to eliminate everything under 100 at the very least if not all the way up to 400 and leave the lower frequencies to the (usually cleaner or transistor amp driven) bass guitar. Basically there are no low frequencies to "boom".


    You, like many others, have not seem to understood the issue here.


    This noise is audiable even on non-bassy amps...

    I am going from the spectrograph provided earlier where the sum total of the noise was determined to be in the sub 300hz region. If you insist on using non specific descriptive terminology like "boomy" which can mean anything from low frequency emphasis to wolf notes to white out then there is no way to interpret or understand what your issue is.


    There's a good reason why no-one is following nor can help. This could be anything from harmonics caused by the distortion (odd, or even order) through to vestibular hyuperacusis. Without clarity on your part, and with an attitude that stinks this much you cannot expect other people to apply scientific method for you.


    Earlier on I suggested that it was simply a case of you not liking specific distortion characteristics, along with an explanation as to why. Your problem though is not with audio, but with how you deal with other people.

    Quote from Per

    I am going from the spectrograph provided earlier where the sum total of the noise was determined to be in the sub 300hz region. If you insist on using non specific descriptive terminology like "boomy" which can mean anything from low frequency emphasis to wolf notes to white out then there is no way to interpret or understand what your issue is.
    There's a good reason why no-one is following nor can help. This could be anything from harmonics caused by the distortion (odd, or even order) through to vestibular hyuperacusis. Without clarity on your part, and with an attitude that stinks this much you cannot expect other people to apply scientific method for you.


    Earlier on I suggested that it was simply a case of you not liking specific distortion characteristics, along with an explanation as to why. Your problem though is not with audio, but with how you deal with other people.


    The problem sounds like this.


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    It's not possible to eliminate it with hipassing.


    The amp itself have to be dailed in to the right settings... You say "no-one is following not can help" but thats just making stuff up.
    Schreckmusic did and he succeeded as well!


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    I think it would be an idea to summarise the 'apparent' issue here, if indeed there is one, and why it is worth pursuing.


    A I now understand it, a number of mid-gain amps all exhibit some less than musical audio qualities when driven, which the Kemper profiles accurately. This effect is noticeable in a large number of profiles of said amps, since the profiled amp is identical to the original. The 'noise' cannot be removed once recorded, but presumably can be dealt with as part of the recording process, since this noise does not appear on most commercial recordings. The 'noise' does not seem to bother many players and Kemper profilers, or the issue would be much more widely known.


    Have I got it right? If not can someone provide the summary asked for above, and suggestions for the amelioration of the problem (e.g. changes/additions to profiling procedures)?

    That profile has way too much treble but it proved my point.


    It's one thing when people give suggestions and never try it. I try everything I suggest. Big difference.
    Cederick gets frustrated and at times I cannot blame him. Still, his social skills stink.

    Quote from amclw1

    I think it would be an idea to summarise the 'apparent' issue here, if indeed there is one, and why it is worth pursuing.


    A I now understand it, a number of mid-gain amps all exhibit some less than musical audio qualities when driven, which the Kemper profiles accurately. This effect is noticeable in a large number of profiles of said amps, since the profiled amp is identical to the original. The 'noise' cannot be removed once recorded, but presumably can be dealt with as part of the recording process, since this noise does not appear on most commercial recordings. The 'noise' does not seem to bother many players and Kemper profilers, or the issue would be much more widely known.


    Have I got it right? If not can someone provide the summary asked for above, and suggestions for the amelioration of the problem (e.g. changes/additions to profiling procedures)?

    Not really "as a part of the recording process"


    More, "as a part of setting up the amp" :thumbup:

    I can definitely hear that 'wind tunnel' in the clips you posted, and after having read all the thread (promise!), I also reckon it's all about gain structure, though I personally think some cab+mic positioning combinations can surely make the noise more present.


    I also think in many cases that noise can be lessened through some EQing and masking it in the mix. I agree with the people suggesting heavy high-pass filtering: guitars may sound thin in an isolated track, but the mix will be much clearer (even if you didn't have that noise in the original track).


    Best thing to do anyway, seems to spend some time dialing porperly the preamp and master settings in the real amp to minimize the noise as @schreckmusic successfully did, but maybe you have this profile you love and want to use but it has some of this 'wind-tunnel thing' in it: you'll have to find a way to make it less noticeable if you want to use it.


    I mostly play low-gain stuff, but I sometimes play also high gain. Hardly ever mid-gain, so I hope I don't begin to hear that 'wind tunnel' everywhere :D !


    And last but not least, @Cederick, mate, seriously: You should work on the way you deal with stuff, the way you express yourself and the way you treat people makes people not eager at all to help. To me it seems a miracle you found a solution to this, taking into account your 'social skills'. Being this an online forum doesn't mean we have to behave the way you do, behind the forum users there's people, and they've been trying to help from the beggining. You should be very thankful to @schreckmusic and his patience...

    The red underlined: Choice of cab and mic position does not increase the noise.
    But it can pick it up differently. I'm sure thats what you meant, but it's easy for people to get confused as obvious from these threads....


    Yes yes yes I know highpassing is good for guitars but it doesn't help getting rid of the noise in the first place (it shouldn't be there if it's a good amp settings)



    The windtunnel noise appears in all gain levels. I can't hear it on actually clean sounds, but once there's at least some distortion/overdrive it can be audiable, unless the amp settings are right for the start. Schreckmusic has laborated a bit with this and found some settings that does not produce this noise so much.


    I just downloaded some free profiles from a guy called Jevo (that used to cost money!) and almost all of them had a lot of windtunnel noise. Same for some SinMix and The Amp Factory etc etc. Somehow these guys doesn't notice this noise...

    Quote from Dean_R

    I wonder if it's coming from the tube sag and compression, maybe it doesn't exist in Solid States Amps.

    Yes it does.


    I have a Maiden-ish Gallien Krueger amp at home right now. It has the noise. Solid state.


    As mentioned in the first post ;)


    It's also in my cheap Roland Microcube.


    Can't remember having that noise with my Peavey Vypyr tho! But if I tried it out today (sold it 2 years ago when I got the Kemper) maybe I could hear it...


    It's mostly a matter of amp settings unless it's really in the amp design by default.

    Quote from Cederick

    Not really "as a part of the recording process"
    More, "as a part of setting up the amp" :thumbup:


    I'm done with this thread I'm afraid. I asked for a summary and no takers. I am not convinced there is a problem that warrants attention. I play many profiles on my Kemper (as do many others, both live and in studio). They all sound fine. I'm happy recording them. No need for any adjustments. So as Frank said "Shut up and play your guitar".