Kemper vs. Real Amp Test - Cameron CCV

    @SonicExporer let's open up that can of worms. I profiled my podhd500, 500x, and helix and all my profiles sound better than the original and absolutely unfathomable after some minor tweaks. Plus, tweak wise, I can do things that would be literally impossible otherwise. Add some od pedals in front and it's tone over.


    Also, what is a "SERIOUS" recording purpose(s)?
    And did you ever try ANY of those tricks I suggested? You never responded.
    ? What about, This kids toan, I thought it sounded kinda hairy

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    Quote from SonicExporer

    A bean POD 2.0 is in fact superior tone-wise than the KPA when it comes to solo notes on Marshall style gain profiles in my experience


    Here's a fairly good POD 2.0 direct recording of the Brit Classic that leaves a lot to be desired:


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    There are any number of KPA covers of AC/DC material that completely blow that away.


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    If the goal is to get a good pre-packaged solo tone, plenty of devices will get you there, probably even faster. The KPA's concept is to reproduce the sound of an amp, not to make something sound bigger, fuller or better.

    Quote from drog

    One thing I have noticed is that I notice this metallic sound in the upper harmonics a lot more on longer scale guitars. My strat at 25-1/2" lends more to this than my Les Paul at 24-3/4". It's like the Kemper is adding bloom? To those higher harmonic overtones. This gives it a unwanted metallic raspiness.

    I figured that thinner sounding single coils (strat bridge) start sounding harsh with unnatural and odd harmonics when the amp is breaking up (and beyond). This is worst with higher definition. Setting definition below 5 makes it much better.
    P90s or humbuckers don't trigger that behavior unless you set definition insanely high.
    Dialing back the tone knob of the guitar (if your strat allows ;) ) helps as well.


    I remember hearing similar artifacts with real tube amps and boutique overdrive pedals. Less pronounced but the thinner single coil created similar odd harmonics.


    One thing that would help to get great tones out of the KPA is a in depth official kemper explanation of the amp parameters, how they interact and what we have to listen for.


    For me, even though I read the manual, most of them are still a mystery.


    ...if I don't understand the far less complex controls of a vintage amp I can dial in some pretty terrible sounds as well :) luckily having only vol/treble/bass makes it much more intuitive than the KPA.


    My solution for harsh sounds: turn down definition and turn down the bass to compensate for the increased muddieness

    To your ears the POD 2.0 sounds better. That's Ok, but I'm entitled to point out how absurd that is. The engineers at Line 6 own a Kemper and they listened to it as they were designing their flagship Helix . To those same engineers, what you're saying here , if not a joke, is still laughable trolling.


    Go to line 6 and tell them what you think and let's see what they think about that.


    When they laugh at you, make sure you tell them that they're being bullies.

    The bean pod 2.0 was incredibly highly compressed, very basic and sounded nothing at all like a Marshall. A hot fizzy digital honky comb filtered mess, yes, but not a real amp tone. That doesn't mean it couldn't sound "good" in the hands of a decent player, or that you couldn't use the tone creatively.


    If you have grown up with an early generation pod thinking that this was good tone rather than with real amps as your yardstick, then you won't get joy from a Kemper because it sounds like real amps, has lower latency, but also much lower compression which means it won't give you that tone for legato without you actually adding in a ton of compression yourself and possibly a treble booster, just like a real amp.


    Some people actively want a digital tone. There's nothing wrong with that, it's an interesting sound, but it's exactly what the Kemper is trying to get away from.

    Quote from Per


    Some people actively want a digital tone. There's nothing wrong with that, it's an interesting sound, but it's exactly what the Kemper is trying to get away from.

    This is one of the smartest statements I've read here in 5 and a half years. :)


    If you want digital amp modelling guitar tone then don't buy a Kemper. :)

    Quote from Per

    The bean pod 2.0 was incredibly highly compressed, very basic and sounded nothing at all like a Marshall. A hot fizzy digital honky comb filtered mess, yes, but not a real amp tone. That doesn't mean it couldn't sound "good" in the hands of a decent player, or that you couldn't use the tone creatively.


    If you have grown up with an early generation pod thinking that this was good tone rather than with real amps as your yardstick, then you won't get joy from a Kemper because it sounds like real amps, has lower latency, but also much lower compression which means it won't give you that tone for legato without you actually adding in a ton of compression yourself and possibly a treble booster, just like a real amp.


    Some people actively want a digital tone. There's nothing wrong with that, it's an interesting sound, but it's exactly what the Kemper is trying to get away from.

    The KPA needs to keep trying then.. :P The KPA still sounds digital to my ears (or maybe another way would be to say not quite real). Something in the gain structure still isn't quite right. Close but something just isn't right IMO. That's likely part of the congestion/rasp issues (and the thinner/"phasey" harmonic solo notes). So hopefully they get that straightened around. The rest may be attributed to the preamp/power stage replication limitations, who knows. If people are happy with the KPA today wonderful, but I've probably been playing and recording tube amps for more years than the average age of the people on the forum and picked up right away something wasn't right with the KPA. Hopefully the issues get fixed, sooner rather than later.


    A POD 2.0, or XT, dialed in correctly and with a good OD pedal in front (not the stuff sold in retail stores) can produce Marshall style solo tones that are superior in tone and clarity to what the KPA can reach. Especially when shredding (the KPA can really struggle in that aspect).. Feel is no contest however, KPA is superior there. These are my experiences and I've expended (putting it politely) more time screwing around with the KPA than any other gear in history.

    Quote from SonicExporer

    A POD 2.0, or XT, dialed in correctly and with a good OD pedal in front (not the stuff sold in retail stores) can produce Marshall style solo tones that are superior in tone and clarity to what the KPA can reach. Especially when shredding (the KPA can really struggle in that aspect).. Feel is no contest however, KPA is superior there. These are my experiences and I've expended (putting it politely) more time screwing around with the KPA than any other gear in history.

    I own an XT and the amount of work it takes me to get anything halfway usable out of the on-board amps (any of them) compared to my Axe FX II or Kemper is ridiculous, especially high-gain solo stuff. I mean, you can get something halfway usable if you spend enough time tweaking it. I was able to pull off some decent tones with EQ matching, but I've got myriad demos I recorded using the XT that, looking back, just sound awful compared to demos of the KPA and Axe. I consider the XT a decent practice modeler, but it's not fit for serious recording, regardless the number of early adopters back then who might've used it on some.

    Quote from SonicExporer

    The KPA needs to keep trying then.. :P The KPA still sounds digital to my ears (or maybe another way would be to say not quite real). Something in the gain structure still isn't quite right. Close but something just isn't right IMO. That's likely part of the congestion/rasp issues (and the thinner/"phasey" harmonic solo notes). So hopefully they get that straightened around. The rest may be attributed to the preamp/power stage replication limitations, who knows. If people are happy with the KPA today wonderful, but I've probably been playing and recording tube amps for more years than the average age of the people on the forum and picked up right away something wasn't right with the KPA. Hopefully the issues get fixed, sooner rather than later.
    A POD 2.0, or XT, dialed in correctly and with a good OD pedal in front (not the stuff sold in retail stores) can produce Marshall style solo tones that are superior in tone and clarity to what the KPA can reach. Especially when shredding (the KPA can really struggle in that aspect).. Feel is no contest however, KPA is superior there. These are my experiences and I've expended (putting it politely) more time screwing around with the KPA than any other gear in history.


    Hello Sonic,


    The following actual, bona fide "shredders" would most likely politely disagree with your assessment...


    Paul Gilbert
    Guthrie Govan
    Steve Morse
    Pat Metheney
    Alex Skolnick
    Marty Friedman
    Steve Lukather
    Jeff Loomis


    Cheers,
    John

    Quote from ColdFrixion

    I own an XT and the amount of work it takes me to get anything halfway usable out of the on-board amps (any of them) compared to my Axe FX II or Kemper is ridiculous, especially high-gain solo stuff. I mean, you can get something halfway usable if you spend enough time tweaking it. I was able to pull off some decent tones with EQ matching, but I've got myriad demos I recorded using the XT that, looking back, just sound awful compared to demos of the KPA and Axe. I consider the XT a decent practice modeler, but it's not fit for serious recording, regardless the number of early adopters back then who might've used it on some.

    While certainly not a real amp, the XT I had the chance to test out was fairly impressive tone for solo stuff (it was a client's with something loaded into it, not sure what it was but I'm guessing it was a metal pack?). I never said using high gain settings. The real trick with the early PODs is to go with lower gain, and goosing it on the front end with a quality analog boost.


    Who cares what a POD can do, just more forum noise and distraction being drudged up.


    Rather I am concerned with what the KPA is having issues with. So hopefully the core tone issues of congestion, rasp, et al. will be sorted out and corrected soon.


    Sonic

    Not a good example. Most of them use stuff sold in retail stores (Paul G. certainly does). I don't think they have any sense of tone. No serious recording here, just some legacy guys.

    Quote from SonicExporer

    While certainly not a real amp, the XT I had the chance to test out was fairly impressive tone for solo stuff (it was a client's with something loaded into it, not sure what it was but I'm guessing it was a metal pack?). I never said using high gain settings. The real trick with the early PODs is to go with lower gain, and goosing it on the front end with a quality analog boost.


    Who cares what a POD can do, just more forum noise and distraction being drudged up.

    Low gain, high gain, the XT left a lot to be desired all the way around by comparison, and I own all of the add-on packs.


    That said, the only reason anyone is talking about the POD is because you injected it into the discussion.

    Quote from mdeeRocks

    Not a good example. Most of them use stuff sold in retail stores (Paul G. certainly does). I don't think they have any sense of tone. No serious recording here, just some legacy guys.


    I do not believe you read my post carefully, otherwise you would have noted that I was replying/responding to a very specific argument (i.e. shred / solo guitar playing). If I was replying to recording/producing, I would have listed other names.


    Furthermore, I respectfully but emphatically disagree with your rather flippant and dismissive characterization of the artists, listed. As your comments are so outrageous, I think it bears being re-quoted for the historical record:



    Quote from mdeeRocks

    I don't think they have any sense of tone. No serious recording here, just some legacy guys.


    ?(:S:S

    Nevermind, I guess. Well, as polite and obsessively thorough in portraying your sentiment in responses and detailed "professional" opinions, you are, without a doubt SUPER ANNOYING, AF, ( pretty sure most feel the same or to me it seems very obvious in an internet sense). And to be part of a community, you might wanna take that into consideration. Check yourself.


    But, I think you did say something positive, so I guess it's a start? I don't need to say a name, and it would probably just be disregarded or tossed to the way side even if I did. Do what you want though, see how far it gets you.


    I don't know why I or any of us follow or respond to these things. I guess some are addicted to how annoying it is. Some try to be helpful.


    I hope you find peace one way or another for your sake and the headaches of others, lovingly of course. May "it" be fixed or moved on from, either way, we hope you'll eventually shut it.


    With luv,


    Elvis

    Refer back to post 1038.


    That was, I assumed, the end of the discussion for now. But no, a handful of defensive fanboys simply can't accept the KPA has some rather noticeable core tonal issues going on for certain profile types and scenarios, and instead of being constructive want to keep stirring up distractions and arguments, as well as personal attacks. (As has been the case all along).


    The issue is now with Kemper, if they are able and willing to fix/improve the KPA or not we'll just have to wait and see.


    Sonic

    Quote from SonicExporer

    .... Something in the gain structure still isn't quite right. Close but something just isn't right IMO. That's likely part of the congestion/rasp issues (and the thinner/"phasey" harmonic solo notes). So hopefully they get that straightened around. The rest may be attributed to the preamp/power stage replication limitations, who knows. ........

    And you paid how much for this device with all these unresolved issues that render the device basically useless to you , in hope that the manufacturer will resolve them in the future? You don't see an issue with that reasoning?


    ( not speaking for anyone but myself) but i am supposed to take you seriously?


    I whole heatedly think there are major issues here and you really need some help that no one on this forum or Kemper can provide.


    I know you might not believe it, but I truly wish you the best and it bothers me to see you suffer .I'm done with you and if you think I'm a fanboy who's attempting at bullying you , think no more of it, I Just put you on ignore but I still wish you the best.


    Good luck friend.

    Yet more fabricated context. To imply I purchased the device knowing there were core tone issues is patently false. And your continual inability to stay constructively focused on the tone problems rather than the personal attacks speaks to who has issues..


    Thanks for putting me on ignore, maybe that will help any future discussion stay productive for those who care to see the KPA tone issues resolved.


    Sonic