Kemper 2 expectations

Quote from Dean_R

How often is Re-amping used. I can see how it can be useful for those who record a wet signal or didn't notice that their guitar was out of tune maybe but you don't need a digital device for this, for anyone serious about this they can use a simple signal splitter to send send the direct signal

I haven't taken a poll but if YouTube videos, forum discussions and Google hits are any indication, re-amping is fairly popular with consumers, and I'd expect professionals who are using modelers during a session to employ it more often than not. Anyway, no one said you needed a digital device to split a signal. I was just saying practically any of the top tier units can be re-amped.

Quote from Dean_R

I wasn't expecting any effects when I looked at the Kemper, profiling and playing profiles was enough for me as it's clearly enough for you based on your extreme setup.

Okay, you personally weren't expecting any effects when you looked at the Kemper, and if everyone were like you it wouldn't matter whether the KPA had a single effects slot, but obviously not everybody's like you. The primary reason the small number of simultaneous effects in the KPA doesn't bother me, personally, is specifically because I have another multi-effects unit capable of doing the heavy lifting. If that weren't the case, I'd be disappointed in that regard.

Quote from Dean_R

I was pleasantly surprised at how amazingly musical many of the Kemper effects were for those who use them when compared with over the top effects found in the usual tired old multi effects platform flooding the current market.

Regardless whether the effects in the KPA are musical or not, compared to other top tier units it's pretty light on simultaneous effects post amp, especially when a lone PEQ takes up a single effects slot. It's not uncommon to see presets that use six or more simultaneous effects post amp in other top tier units. One could say that most Kemper owners don't need that many simultaneous effects built into the unit, but then they don't have the option, so of course you'll never see any of them using more than four after the amp.

Quote from V8guitar

Yes, which is why I don't want one :). I would almost certainly have to buy one...GAS!!
Seriously, people who are pushing for a K2 don't seem to understand those who don't want one.

Simple why I don;t want one:

1) my current one will devalue so if and when I change it it goes down in price...ask anyone with an axe ii, BUT whilst this is a factor this is not the main reason...

2) I want Kemper to research and invest in the things I want which seem to be core to their approach so far. Yes I know you can't please everyone, but I do not want dual amps for example. I just want the best possible sound. Note quite a few requests I see I agree with, e.g. editor but this is not related to K2 and reinforces my point. I'd prefer Kemper to work on a great editor with the K1 than a K2 with an editor.

Yes a K2 will have to come at some point but I hope its when the hardware truly has reached its limits and better sound can be obtained from a new box.

If that was the argument for a K2, I would support it but some far its about stereo running, dual profiles and routing options - so not for me and I suspect a fair amount of people. At the moment I'm happy with the software updates as the box seems to be sufficient so far.

We all want the product to advance, just in different ways..

Right, definitely going to shut up now ( I know I said that 2 posts ago)...

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Uhmm...And you really think that your first point only applies to those who don't want a Kemper 2? The moment you buy a digital device you lose money. IOW, I too am losing money and will lose even more money when the Kemper 2 is announced. This is really a terrible excuse.

As for your second reason, guess what? I too want my voice to be heard, just like you and everyone else. For my wishes, the only way some of them will happen is with a hardware revision. I don't care what it's called (Kemper 2, Kemper XP, whatever), but dual profiles, expansive hardware routing, better Sample Rate support, audio interface capabilities, etc. None of these can be achieved without new hardware.

Also, given the features that the competition is offering, I think Kemper should consider releasing new hardware fairly soon. Tone is not all people care about, especially given how close to a real amp the Helix and the Axe FX can sound. This edge in tone that the Kemper has over them is getting smaller and smaller every day. Even today, there are people who trade this tone difference for better routing, dual amp and the recording capabilities found on other units. Just saying.

I know you'll come back, lol.

Quote from ColdFrixion

Regardless whether the effects in the KPA are musical or not, compared to other top tier units it's pretty light on simultaneous effects post amp, especially when a lone PEQ takes up a single effects slot....

you still bought the Kemper clearly for the advancement in modeling even though you had the AXE FX II that has the most effects count and parameters than most processors if not all. Kemper effects are very capable but most buy the Kemper for the modeling if they care about modeling regardless what effects they previously have or what effects come with the Kemper and how it compares in regards to effects.

It's a profiler first, not an effect processor first, that's why you, I and many if not most bought it for.

Quote from V8guitar

Yes, which is why I don't want one :). I would almost certainly have to buy one...GAS!!
Seriously, people who are pushing for a K2 don't seem to understand those who don't want one.

Simple why I don;t want one:

1) my current one will devalue so if and when I change it it goes down in price...ask anyone with an axe ii

That's usually the case with digital technology in general, but if that were a valid reason not to release new technology, innovation would grind to a halt.

Quote from V8guitar

Yes a K2 will have to come at some point but I hope its when the hardware truly has reached its limits and better sound can be obtained from a new box.

Better sound in what capacity? Christoph Kemper stated at this years NAMM that there's virtually no room to improve the profiling.

Jose, If there was a KPA II introduced, (with superior amplifier tones, I don’t care as much about FX) I would buy it in a second. as I mentioned before, we guitar players are a strange bunch.
However, If the base amp tones were not changed or Improved, I would not buy the KII.
I’m in this for the “TONE”, not for 10 FX simultaneously, I only use two or rarely three effects at the same time at the most

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Quote from creative360

The amp tones of the other devices do keep changing—something I would find problematic—but this assessment that the divide between their feel/tone and the Kemper keeps getting smaller every day, that’s just not something I see/hear bourne out in reality, or in the comments of people who own both.

Again, if there were compelling features added to a new design, that would be cool. But no—nothing about what the other manufacturers are doing means C Kemper need be looking over his shoulder.

If anything, as the Kemper has already been a smash product for several years, and he doesn’t answer to shareholders, these days he’s probably more concerned with allocating his human/dollar resources judiciously so that that success doesn’t force him out of his day to day comfort zone; a historically measured, incremental development process. Sure, for consumers who want it all and want it all yesterday, that approach can be infuriating. But it has also extended the lifespan and development of a groundbreaking product in ways that are rare in the digital era.

If it was just about making more and more money, there are a lot of easier ways that he could’ve done that. I’m thinking he’s okay with people bonding with other devices, and not particularly inclined to use that as impetus to alter what he’s created or how he approaches doing it. Again, from a consumer standpoint, maybe that seems elitist or out of touch.

But Kemper users have been able to profile whatever amp in the world that they want (for the most part) since day one. So the Kemper has actually involved zero waiting since day one, compared to the othe devices. You can thank him later. But multiply Tim Pierce by pretty much every other top guitarist and top recording studio: the Kemper is being used more than ever to archive amp collections and album tones for use on the road and on other recording sessions. In other words, as the only device that does this, it’s still being used at the top echelons of popular music for the exact purpose it was invented.

So yeah, whatever else you or I think should change, the inventer can probably sleep alright at night with what he has contributed to the guitar spectrum.

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Good post!

Quote from Dean_R

you still bought the Kemper clearly for the advancement in modeling even though you had the AXE FX II that has the most effects count and parameters than most processors if not all.

If you're suggesting that the only reason I still have the Axe FX is due to the effects rather than the modeling, you'd be wrong. I bought the KPA because there are times I don't want to build rigs from scratch. I like its plug and playability, but I use the Axe FX II's amp models as often as I use KPA profiles. Sometimes more, sometimes less. It just depends on my mood and what I'm working on. But I use them both fairly equally because there are times I love tweaking and building rigs from scratch and other times I'd rather profile surf on the Rig Exchange. However, if I had to give a firm answer, the Axe FX probably gets just a bit more use because it has an editor and more effects options.

Quote from Dean_R

Kemper effects are very capable but most buy the Kemper for the modeling if they care about modeling regardless what effects they previously have or what effects come with the Kemper and how it compares in regards to effects.

Well, most consumers purchase a modeler primarily for the amp modeling, but if you've spent any time on other forums, you'd know that potential buyers often ask about the KPA's effects capabilities, and it's definitely a consideration for many users from what I've seen.

Quote from Dean_R

It's a profiler first, not an effect processor first, that's why you, I and many if not most bought it for.

All of the top tier modelers (eg. Axe FX II & III, Helix) position themselves as amp modelers first and multi-effects units second, and I'm not familiar with many people who've purchased an Axe FX or Helix primarily for effects.

Nevertheless, Christoph Kemper recognizes the importance of effects to the Kemper user base:

"Our users have asked us for more effects because they have the clear tendency to try to have the whole rig into one unit, which is, in general, an innovation of digital guitar amplifiers; that you can bring the whole effects chain into one unit, which has a lot of advantages. It's not as expensive, and it's more flexible because you can store and recall a whole setting. It's also better sound quality because you don't have that many transitions and joins for all your signals in the analog domain, which is a major point."

- Christoph Kemper (NAMM 2018)

Quote from SQUAREHEAD

I’m in this for the “TONE”, not for 10 FX simultaneously, I only use two or rarely three effects at the same time at the most

Well, some people rarely use more than 3 or 4 profiles. Those people might be perfectly fine with limiting the number of stored profiles to 3 or 4. However, like other modeling units, the KPA was designed to appeal to a wide range of preferences, not just those who rarely use effects and/or a handful of profiles.

Quote from ColdFrixion

Well, some people rarely use more than 3 or 4 profiles. Those people might be perfectly fine with limiting the number of stored profiles to 3 or 4. However, like other modeling units, the KPA was designed to appeal to a wide range of preferences, not just those who rarely use effects and/or a handful of profiles.

I said “effects”… Three EFFECTS at a time maximum…
I use 25-30 different favourite profiles, depending on the gig and what is needed…

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Quote from SQUAREHEAD

I said “effects”… Three EFFECTS at a time maximum…I use 25-30 different favourite profiles, depending on the gig and what is needed…

Right, and that's my point. Some users view profile variation the way you view maximum number of effects usage. They don't need 25 or 30 profiles much the way you don't need 9 or 10 simultaneous effects, but the unit has to cater to a wide range of preferences, not just yours or mine.

Quote from creative360

The Kemper quote suggests that he acknowledges that consumer inclination and understands its appeal, not that he plans to reboot his thinking and make delivering that paradigm the primary objective of his ongoing product development. That said, the company has been pretty generous with the ways in which it has attempted to satisfy our (his) hopes for the device’s capabilities. I’m guessing (hoping) there’s a bit more coming down the line, and after that we’ll eventually see what the future holds.

The point was that CK recognizes the importance of effects as they relate to the unit as a whole rather than viewing them as some sort of afterthought in relation to the profiling.

Quote from ColdFrixion

If you're suggesting that the only reason I still have the Axe FX is due to the effects rather than the modeling, you'd be wrong. I bought the KPA because......

I t doesn't matter what your reasons specifically were when you bought the Kemper when you already owned the AXE FX II,, Kemper fulfills some need at your end otherwise you wouldn't have bought it. and it's great that you're able to afford both.

So the Kemper fulfills various needs for many varied guitar players but it's not attempting to fulfill all the needs of everyone and everything as the AXE FX II or Helix and similar products..So maybe there will never be a Kemper 2, how do we know? By basing it on what other companies who are so predictable who are still doing the same thing that's been done since the beginning of time.?

still In regards to effects there are many effects on the Kemper that are done more intuitively and musically than any guitar processor I've used, including harmonies, Delays, modulations, filters, Shapers . most users might not even realize how powerful the shapers can be in turning a dud into a stellar profile, try those on some clean amps and you'll know what I'm talking about.

Kemper is a new paradigm in guitar processing even in regards to effects, it' certainly not the same tired old predictable approach that's been floating around for the last 30 years. It simple, powerful and to to the point. Gone are the days where only a few can make good presets. You no longer need to learn the electrical working of the tube amp to compete with electrical engineers to figure out how to edit parameters and spend ridiculous amount of time doing same.

Quote

But Kemper users have been able to profile whatever amp in the world that they want (for the most part) since day one. So the Kemper has actually involved zero waiting since day one, compared to the other devices. You can thank him later. But multiply Tim Pierce by pretty much every other top guitarist and top recording studio: the Kemper is being used more than ever to archive amp collections and album tones for use on the road and on other recording sessions. In other words, as the only device that does this, it’s still being used at the top echelons of popular music for the exact purpose it was invented.

The fact that most serious musicians will automatically choose the most serious tool is a simple fact,a matter of logic.

As is that serious musicians(professional or not) will choose ALWAYS the greatest sounding tool.Sounds first.This is top priority and not sheer specs.As is that serious musicians will always try to replicate their bulk of heavy equipment (like tons of tube amps,cabs,drums,analog synths or whatever..) into a handy tool with a good and usefull UI.Something they can pay for without to stay awake at night in doubts about the money they just spent while they dont have the means to pay for the living-costs of the next days. .Nothing will change that.Everything else is just twisting reality.All the talk about fx,routing and "better UI" like an editor is good and usefull but it is just this..by no means essential..and in this aspect indeed I am already saying "thank you" to @CK and his team.Not because I am a fanboy but because these guys are all about serious buinsess.

A Kemper2 will only make sense and repeat the great success of the current one when its keep this serious approach always with the potential customers(tube guys) in sight,this "one & only" approach which will make it more than just a subject to GAS.

It is good that there are so many people out there who still have the money to spend 3000$ on a modeler every few years because it has such fine UI & FX and whatever..I am very happy about this.It just dont applies to me neither to other musicians who struggle their daily fights to keep continuing to do what they do.

he said she said I said you said. Yall are cute

Quote from SQUAREHEAD

Jose, If there was a KPA II introduced, (with superior amplifier tones, I don’t care as much about FX) I would buy it in a second. as I mentioned before, we guitar players are a strange bunch.
However, If the base amp tones were not changed or Improved, I would not buy the KII.
I’m in this for the “TONE”, not for 10 FX simultaneously, I only use two or rarely three effects at the same time at the most

You're being completely selfish here and just thinking about YOUR needs. As ColdFrixion said, maybe I need 10 simultaneous FX and not 25 - 30 profiles. My needs are different than yours and viceversa. That's OK. I wouldn't wish for Kemper to neglect your wishes just because I don't need what you need. Let's think about others too :-).

Quote from Dean_R

I t doesn't matter what your reasons specifically were when you bought the Kemper when you already owned the AXE FX II,, Kemper fulfills some need at your end otherwise you wouldn't have bought it. and it's great that you're able to afford both.

Obviously everyone buys stuff to fill a need or want. I was correcting your assertion that I bought the KPA "clearly for the advancement in modeling". Obviously the reason people buy a Kemper matters, otherwise we wouldn't be debating the relevance of effects with respect to consumer interest.

Quote from Dean_R

So the Kemper fulfills various needs for many varied guitar players but it's not attempting to fulfill all the needs of everyone and everything as the AXE FX II or Helix and similar products.

Considering the KPA is the company's first foray into digital amplification and it's an aging product, the feature set might look a bit different and more competitive if the company were debuting it today.

Quote from Dean_R

still In regards to effects there are many effects on the Kemper that are done more intuitively and musically than any guitar processor I've used, including harmonies, Delays, modulations, filters, Shapers . most users might not even realize how powerful the shapers can be in turning a dud into a stellar profile, try those on some clean amps and you'll know what I'm talking about.

Even if I thought every effect in the KPA was qualitatively on par with the Axe FX(I don't but let's pretend I do), that's completely independent of the fact there's a hard limit of four effects slots after the amp in the KPA.

Quote from Jose7822

You're being completely selfish here and just thinking about YOUR needs. As ColdFrixion said, maybe I need 10 simultaneous FX and not 25 - 30 profiles. My needs are different than yours and viceversa. That's OK. I wouldn't wish for Kemper to neglect your wishes just because I don't need what you need. Let's think about others too :-).

I understand, you make some Good points, but selfish? I was just stating what it would take for ME to buy the next version… I was stating my opinion, my needs… I was stating what would push ME over the edge to get another one, understand?

Quote from ColdFrixion

I was correcting your assertion that I bought the KPA "clearly for the advancement in modeling". ..

Ok so I guessed wrong and you didn't buy the Kemper for the advancement in Amp modeling or profiling capabilities.

Can I guess again?

My guess is you bought the Kemper for the colorful leds and it also feels good looking at it it next to the AXE FX. II thinking that you own what others consider the latest and the greatest. I love those leads too

I mean you didn't buy it for the profiling or effects so I can't think of any other plausible reason.