Kemper 2 expectations

pickup and reverb profiling

Quote from Dean_R

Ok so I guessed wrong and you didn't buy the Kemper for the advancement in Amp modeling or profiling capabilities.
Can I guess again?

My guess is you bought the Kemper for the colorful leds and it also feels good looking at it it next to the AXE FX. II thinking that you own what others consider the latest and the greatest. I love those leads too

I mean you didn't buy it for the profiling or effects so I can't think of any other plausible reason.

I explained why I bought it in post #168.

Quote from Nikos

As much as I understand the wish for "having absolutely everything" in just one device it is nevertheless not possible.

Exactly. That is why I want more digital input/output with flexible routing. And more slots so I can take advantage of both internal Kemper effects and external devices.

Quote from ColdFrixion

Nevertheless, Christoph Kemper recognizes the importance of effects to the Kemper user base:

"Our users have asked us for more effects because they have the clear tendency to try to have the whole rig into one unit, which is, in general, an innovation of digital guitar amplifiers; that you can bring the whole effects chain into one unit, which has a lot of advantages. It's not as expensive, and it's more flexible because you can store and recall a whole setting. It's also better sound quality because you don't have that many transitions and joins for all your signals in the analog domain, which is a major point."

- Christoph Kemper (NAMM 2018)

The external effects block implementation employed by Kemper is excellent. That is one reason that I want more of them available without taking away from the availability of internal effects blocks. Again, I don't expect to use 8 at a time. But having a preset that places blocks where I want them (at the input, between pre and power amp, and even after the amp, but before the cab) would make integration much easier.

Mr. K makes my argument for more digital input/output for me with his statement about "transitions and joins". It is obvious that this a requirement on an all analog pedal board . But once inside the KPA, you are in a digital domain.

Quote from ColdFrixion

...I bought the KPA because there are times I don't want to build rigs from scratch. I like its plug and playability,

According to this you bought it because you find it easier and faster for you to get a great tone without an editor, yet you fault the Kemper for not having an editor when you yourself get great tones quicker than the other device that has a beautiful state of the art editor. Don't you consider time saving to be an advancement.

Quote from ColdFrixion

I was correcting your assertion that I bought the KPA "clearly for the advancement in modeling".

Isn't being able to do the same thing much faster on the Kemper without an editor considered an advancement to you>? Or a glamorous looking editor that gets you there so much slower is just as advanced that you decided to Keep the Kemper for its speed.

Quote from Dean_R

According to this you bought it because you find it easier and faster for you to get a great tone without an editor

Yes, if I don't have to touch a knob or tweak anything, but that only accounts for about 30% of the time. The other 70% an editor would come in handy.

Quote from Dean_R

yet you fault the Kemper for not having an editor when you yourself get great tones quicker than the other device that has a beautiful state of the art editor.

I can get great tones with either unit, and it's nice when I can find a profile that's exactly what I'm looking for. But I'm not limited by the sound of other people's profiles, and there are times I prefer to create tones with the Axe FX. It definitely helps that the Axe has an editor, because adding effects and tweaking various settings in the KPA can be a pain, not to mention I can't build tones from the ground up without an amp.

Quote from Dean_R

Isn't being able to do the same thing much faster on the Kemper without an editor considered an advancement to you>?

I'm not doing the same thing with the Kemper.

I think that the company should be working toward a lower priced product (say $1,000 - $1,500) in a floor pedal form factor, not a K2.

This would fulfill a market segment that the current Kemper live setup @ $2500 can't compete (including remote).

For those of you who are longing for a full featured editor, a floor board product would require it implicitly in order to make the price point, and make the form factor (can't have so many knobs on a footswitch .... they will break/get soaked with beer, etc).

Such a product would use the exact architecture that KPA is using with all internal parts as well. Only the control screen and controls would change, and the editor functionality would be essential (since it would be virtually impossible to setup without).

That is where the smart money is IMO. Way more "bang for the buck" to develop this product.

Quote from SQUAREHEAD

I understand, you make some Good points, but selfish? I was just stating what it would take for ME to buy the next version… I was stating my opinion, my needs… I was stating what would push ME over the edge to get another one, understand?

That's my bad then. I incorrectly interpreted your post.

Nothing to see here :-).

I wouldn't hesitate on a Kemper 2, really.

There's a fair amount of (controversial, for some...) reports about differences between the original amp and the Kemper profile.
It's often not a 100% match. IT'S REALLY CLOSE but what I mostly hear is a slight lack of bottom end.

This will be denied by die-hard devotees, even with audio evidence, and I cannot understand why. Isn't it because we basically love the product but want it to improve and get even further ahead of all the other units on the market? There's still room for improvement.

Because if the Kemper team releases a second Kemper with "improved profiling accuracy" that will prove that there sometimes WAS some inaccuracies in the profiling process... Which there was. Even if some people will try to deny this.

And again, I love my Kemper and if another Kemper came out, I would probably buy one, and keep my old one because it is a great piece of equipment

When I bought the Kemper, the profiling accuracy was the big thing. But having been working with it for almost 3 years now, I just treat it like an amp and don't really think about trying to match other tones anymore.

The biggest factor for a K2 purchase would now be backwards compatibility. I couldn't face recreating all my work from scratch again.

Backwards compatibility isn't the "biggest factor" but important yes.

Biggest factor should be new features and improved accuracy etc.

Personally I have still just settled with a couple of profiles I like and dont care much about others right now. It took too much time and fun from my life when I bought profiles all the time, and tried profiling myself...
I'm over that. I have like 3-4 metal profiles and I only really use one of them anyway

CK already said in NAMM 2018 video there is no plans to improve algorithm , despite in his words it being almost perfect
i say learn all what the gear can do and enjoy it
There wont be an upgrade in the algorithm
love it or leave it

i choose to love it
I am happy you can be too

Ash

Quote from Jose7822

I know you'll come back, lol.

No I won't....Oh damn I have

Serious gonna a leave it because these are requests and opinions. no one is right or wrong here everyone has a different view, which is why this post has become a bit redundant.

Quote from V8guitar

No I won't....Oh damn I have
Serious gonna a leave it because these are requests and opinions. no one is right or wrong here everyone has a different view, which is why this post has become a bit redundant.

I wouldn't say is redundant, but reflective of what people want. It's free research for Kemper, if only of a subset of his users.

Quote from Cederick

This will be denied by die-hard devotees, even with audio evidence, and I cannot understand why. Isn't it because we basically love the product but want it to improve and get even further ahead of all the other units on the market? There's still room for improvement.

Possibly so; however, for live applications, the bottom end isn't what gets heard in the mix since it is frequently (almost always) covered up by the bass and kick.

When we listen to our rig by itself, the bottom end is frequently what makes it sound good to us ... I agree.

Still, your point is valid. I do believe that sometimes a bit of the warmth may be missing from the KPA profiled replica of the original .... but only a little IME.

Quote from karlic

When I bought the Kemper, the profiling accuracy was the big thing. But having been working with it for almost 3 years now, I just treat it like an amp and don't really think about trying to match other tones anymore.

The biggest factor for a K2 purchase would now be backwards compatibility. I couldn't face recreating all my work from scratch again.

I completely agree with this. I started off trying to replicate my VHT sound, then found many other sounds that I actually liked better.

I would find backwards compatibility a very compelling feature for any new KPA device. I would settle for a conversion utility since it is possible that the format might be different (bit depth, header organization, new features, etc).

If you could take an existing rig, and get pretty close on the new unit, that would be good enough for me to tweak my way to where I am at now without much work.

Quote from Cederick

Personally I have still just settled with a couple of profiles I like and dont care much about others right now. It took too much time and fun from my life when I bought profiles all the time, and tried profiling myself...
I'm over that. I have like 3-4 metal profiles and I only really use one of them anyway

This is how guys who come from the tube rigs work,no;

We think we need a thousand sounds with a thousand fx to do this and that and we believe that we can "do it" like synth guys but..

Truth is electric guitar is a simple,primitive,raw but very emotional instrument.It is all about a special feel every serious guitar player needs to express himself.As soon as this "special feel" becomes "more than one" we struggle as long as we are not experienced studio guitar players who work all day with some kind of "method acting" using completely different sounds,feels in a short period of time in a demanding enviroment (like in a pro-studio recording for a major act).We all would like to be like famous hollywood "method actors" on the guitar but most of us electric guitar players are more like....more or less good actors doing always the same type of character in each movie they do..

We guitar players are very one dimensional type of guys.In reality we are (most of us) some sort of "Petruccis" who need one great sounding multi-channel amp with a few identical channels to tweak one and the same great feeling sound with different gain,volume,eqs,dynamics and fx.Thats it.Lets be honest.

And for this no other tool is as perfect as the profiler.You can profile(or find the profile you need) your well known feel/sound and "work it out" afterwards in as many variations you need.

As for "more"...how many guitar players are out there who really "do it" with extreme fx;I know the edge.Next in mind..the edge..anyone else;Yes.The edge!Okay.Did I miss someone;

Again.One question is what you think you need.Another question is what you really need.The answer to this is to know yourself.Problem solved.That being said..I would love a Kemper2 which can give me the inspiration to find the next "one special sound"..but this most likely will not sound like a typical electric guitar with a typical tube rig.But more or less "different".

ps
I also have 20-25 completely different profiles I really love.I mean I really love to play them.But how often do I really use them;

Quote from Nikos

We guitar players are very one dimensional type of guys.

If guitar playing were painting, I definitely use more than one color.

Quote from Nikos

As for "more"...how many guitar players are out there who really "do it" with extreme fx;I know the edge.Next in mind..the edge..anyone else;Yes.The edge!Okay.Did I miss someone

Robin Guthrie from Cocteau Twins, Marc Byrd from Hammock and Jonny Greenwood from Radiohead just to name a few.

@ColdFrixion

I will not start the next wrestle for being understood in the right way.If you indeed want a discussion with me please keep this in mind..

So..All great but before all these guys you named you have Hendrix,Fripp,Belew,Holdsworth and yes..Steve Vai in his "Harmonizer period"..showing rock guitar players that they have to learn modes to use an H3000 to its full capacities..and you have much more who make extensive use of fx..Andy Summers,Tom Morello..ofcourse Jeff Beck..Gilmour..most of these guys (as the names you posted above) belong more to the "avantgarde"..

Nevertheless only the edge has done something all the others named above did not:Using all the fx not for mostly leadsand playing a few chords in the intro but for the whole song.The delay as part of the rythmical context of the whole groove.Creating a whole popular new approach on a popular instrument.To be heard on all radio stations around the world.

The thing is what I said above..

Quote

Again.One question is what you think you need.Another question is what you really need.The answer to this is to know yourself.Problem solved.

The Kemper is for sure not for tweakers who want to be more synth players (creating "atmospheres") than guitar players comming from the tube rig world.The Kemper is very "guitar" in the classical way making "rocknroll"..in everything.Sound,feel,UI..

That being said I would have no problem if a Kemper2 would be more "experimmental".But again..all in a really musical context.Not by sheer processing power and "more" of what we already have.Like fx,more fx..and more of whatever I dont need to play a simple instrument.

Quote from Nikos

@ColdFrixion

I will not start the next wrestle for being understood in the right way.If you indeed want a discussion with me please keep this in mind..

I think you're very safe discussing with him as long as you acknowledge that he will go the distance and even contradict himself to have the last word.

Keep in mind he still didn't commit to his reason for why he bought the Kemper except to say that he bought it for its plug and play features for when he wants to get good tone faster than with other devices , but then later after I pointed that out, he contradicted himself by saying the Kemper is a pain without an editor even though he specifically keeps it for its plug and play features and how quicker you can get a good tone with it. Every time he does that, I let him have the last word and it's all good.

I'm just pointing this out to you so you don't get frustrated with it and just accept it for what it is. People are allowed to contradict themselves and say whatever they want to say, this is the internet.

I was hoping for a Kemper floor unit this NAMM, obvioulsy it didn't happen , still hoping they'll come out with something like that soon, wasn't looking for a Kemper rack but ended up with one recently ( owned a KPA before when they first came out) I'm happy with it, had looked at all the other available floor units, but wasn't too impressed, as my needs are really good amp tones and very basic effects, having saíd that a Kemper II loaded with maybe synth and whatever crazy affects, would be welcome and I'd buy it, as long as it's a floor unit..

Quote from DigitalTube

I was hoping for a Kemper floor unit this NAMM, obvioulsy it didn't happen , still hoping they'll come out with something like that soon, wasn't looking for a Kemper rack but ended up with one recently ( owned a KPA before when they first came out) I'm happy with it, had looked at all the other available floor units, but wasn't too impressed, as my needs are really good amp tones and very basic effects, having saíd that a Kemper II loaded with maybe synth and whatever crazy affects, would be welcome and I'd buy it, as long as it's a floor unit..

There is one advantage of a rack unit with a separate floor pedal though. The rack unit pedal has only 1 connection going to it so the cable clutter around your stage area is greatly reduced.

An all-in-one floor unit would certainly be less expensive, and a smaller carry; however, it would come at the expense of more floor clutter in your immediate stage area IMO.

My thought on the floor unit was that it would put the KPA into a completely different market segment. All the tone at half the price sort of thing. It would certainly sell in higher quantities than the current $2500 solution.

I would still like to see better verbs and a better gain stomp in the current KPA. A performance organizer feature in rig manager would also be very welcomed. None of these things need a new unit by any stretch of the imagination.