dB output measurment

Thanks I was guessing that because it's an observation tool not really a mastering tool.

Quote from Roeffel

I just armed a track in Reaper, started playing and switching rigs and looked at the meter of the youlian app, adjusted the amp volume to level all rigs to -18 dB ... Guess thats how it should be done ?

Raf

I doubt this will work very well.
Are you measuring peak or RMS?
Even integrated it is hard to match the loudness of a powerful, mid-heavy distorted sound with a super clean SC tone.
And these readings will tell you nothing about what will happen to them in a mix.

It's ears, ears, ears, I'm afraid

Quote from Roeffel

I just looked at the LUFS by picking hard ... to me the rigs are at the same level through my spdif and scarlett 8i6 interface ...

Raf

I know but the point several of us a making is that meter readings being the same doesn't necessarily translate as sit in the mix with similar perceived loudness. The meters might get you somewhere in the ballpark but you will probably still need to adjust by ear anyway. In which case you can probably just do the whole thing by ear from outset and save so e time. Using meters to set levels is a very seductive concept which most of us have been sucked in by at some stage but it is invariably a blind alley.

and when the level of the signal changes, so does your perception of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

I've had some success with running pink/white noise into my Stage unit then measuring the output with a dB meter, gets me pretty close. It might be helpful if the Kemper had a built-in noise generator with a few weighted options.

Quote from hiflyerint

I've had some success with running pink/white noise into my Stage unit then measuring the output with a dB meter, gets me pretty close. It might be helpful if the Kemper had a built-in noise generator with a few weighted options.

I'm sure it works great for uniform noise,
but a guitar's DI signal is one of the most dynamic things I ever worked with.

good luck

Quote from DonPetersen

Even integrated it is hard to match the loudness of a powerful, mid-heavy distorted sound with a super clean SC tone.
And these readings will tell you nothing about what will happen to them in a mix.

It's ears, ears, ears, I'm afraid

Exactly. That's why I wrote: "the best way is with drums and in a mix then punch through the rigs to see where they sit."

Pre Kemper I learned after I used to sit in my studio for hours getting what I thought was the perfect level for clean, distortion, crunch and leads. After countless times doing that then finding out with the band I wasn't even close I realized I had to have at very least bass and drums playing along. When I'd get home and check out what I did to make everything just right I would be shocked at how much louder the leads needed to be than I would have ever guessed at home and how much lower clean sounds needed to be. If I played my "live" levels for you solo you would think the cleans were too low and lead WAY too loud. I've kinda trained myself to get close knowing that, but I still never get it perfect without being in a mix. Many sound engineers have told me over the years one of the worst things people do with presets is have their cleans too loud (which we all know are generally less compressed). When the guitarist switches to distortion, it sounds anemic in comparison if he isn't riding the slider and good luck with that in a club environment. My goal is always to have my levels so the soundman can continue to focus on vocals or girls he's chatting up and I can tell you the best way is by ear and I normally hate to say that. I wish there was a way to adjust visually but I haven't found a method yet because perfectly level won't work. Leads usually will go and take the place of the lead vocal which is usually much louder than the guitar if you want people to hear what the singer is singing. Once I get my device understood, I can start making intelligent first stabs at it like"OK the lead need so be 6db louder" and this real jangly super clean needs to be 4db lower etc. but it's just a starting point.

Quote from Roeffel

I agree when playing thru backline ... this is for our in-ear system so all will hear my patches equally ... indeed the lead boost is still something to consider as well ... I like boosting a bit instead of purely playing with EQ

Raf

Unfortunately, it applies to IEM and FOH the same as backline. Simply balancing levels to the same mater reading will likely cause an imbalanced sound in your IEM but most importantly also in the FOH.

Quote from Roeffel

I agree when playing thru backline ... this is for our in-ear system so all will hear my patches equally ... indeed the lead boost is still something to consider as well ... I like boosting a bit instead of purely playing with EQ

If that same signal is going FOH, it's no different. The FOH is always my first consideration (the people paying me). If the levels are set that the cleans are too loud, distortions wimpy and people can't hear the lead on the account of they are perfectly balanced, it will still not be good, Doesn't matter if you monitor though IEM or a wedge, the front has to be right when you switch slots/boosts. I would think that if you set a full mix in your IEMs, it would be no different than what I do playing along with the band or a track when setting levels except whatever changes happen between going through a large P.A. or a set of ear buds. That's why I don't like IEM. Everyone thinks you have to do it for some reason but I want to hear the room & crowd. You can't take that important request for Freebird with cancelling IEMs in or take care of hecklers.

Quote from DonPetersen

I'm sure it works great for uniform noise,
but a guitar's DI signal is one of the most dynamic things I ever worked with.

good luck

Like I said "gets me pretty close". Uniform Noise - great name for a band...