Kemper USB record/play - a less limited solution

b_ryan · Jul 18th 2023

I was ecstatic when the news dropped about the Kemper finally being able to record and re-amp through USB. What I've dreamt of for many years. The best news EVER! So I thought It so happens that the USB solution the Kemper offers, doesn't really let me use it the way, I thought was possible. The way I actually thought was the logical way. So I'm destined to wander the realm of the analog unless I want the Kemper to be the audio interface. And I don't want that. What I hope they will fix, is this: I want to be able to record and re-amp through USB while

- Using my main audio interface as it is intended to (RME Babyface Pro fs) with the volume control, its AD/DA converters etc. I don't want the Kemper as another audio interface, so I have to constantly switch between them.

- I wish NOT to be limited to listen to my live recording through the monitor of the audio track in Logic Pro. Why can't the Kempers USB signal reach my audio interface? Why do I have to connect speakers to the Kemper to hear it?

- I wish to be able to just turn on my Mac and my Kemper and just have it hooked up like normal (speakers to the audio interface) and be able to hear myself playing. Right now I plugged the analog output into my audio interface and everything can be heard. My Kemper, Logic Pro, audio and videos from the internet etc. I don't want a weird setup with speakers connected to the Kemper and to the audio interface too or a setup, where I always need to change everything according to what, I want to do.

It's waaaaaay to complicated and unnecessary to do all this. Why does it have to be so complicated and such a hazzle? in 2023? Come on

Can we (or I at least) please just have the Kempers USB to just be "plug and play" without all these limitations? With the tech and the wisdom of the IT people of today...in 2023, it should be very easy to just let the audio interface be the audio interface and the Kemper be just a USB device controlled by the audio interface. Turn on the Mac, turn on the Kemper, turn on the speakers, play og record - the end! It kills my creative flow and it kills my energy to play as well.

I'm convinced that other manufacturers present this possibility already. I think that Line6 did this years ago actually...a decade ago. I think I remember a former friend plugging his Line6 rack device into the PC and recorded with that, while having an audio interface as well and it didn't have all these issues. This was many years ago. Well...I can remember wrong of course. It would still amaze me, if this wasn't possible today...in 2023.

Please please please

musicmad · Jul 18th 2023

I think you remember wrong. However you can make an aggregated device on both Mac and PC (using asio4all).

Alternatively keep your Kemper analogs connected to your RME and you'll still be able to hear the Kemper via the RME even if your daw is using the Kemper over USB for a reamp.

Michael_dk · Jul 18th 2023

Quote from b_ryan

Why can't the Kempers USB signal reach my audio interface?

...Because they are not connected directly...?

There's a computer in between, right?

So the signal from the Kemper reaches the computer. How can the kemper decide what the computer does with the audio from that point?

Wheresthedug · Jul 18th 2023

As musicmad said, it is really easy to create an aggregate interface in Mac and have both simply show up in Lpgic as inputs and outputs. You just need to select which one you want on a track by track basis. Nothing complicated at all.

Michael_dk · Jul 18th 2023

Quote from Wheresthedug

As musicmad said, it is really easy to create an aggregate interface in Mac and have both simply show up in Lpgic as inputs and outputs. You just need to select which one you want on a track by track basis. Nothing complicated at all.

I think the issue is that he wants to monitor his playing on the kemper using the outputs of the other audio interface without using daw (track) monitoring.

Wheresthedug · Jul 18th 2023

Quote from Michael_dk

I think the issue is that he wants to monitor his playing on the kemper using the outputs of the other audio interface without using daw (track) monitoring.

He mentioned using Logic Pro so I assumed that was the main use scenario. I think the aggregate device in Mac OS still works whether using a DAW or not though.

virango · Jul 20th 2023

b_ryan: you could try an audio routing software, such as GroundControl or Omnibus.

b_ryan · Jul 20th 2023

I’ve have already made this aggregated device. I got some advice from support on the forum. But yes….that was actually really easy. Still solves nothing though.

And yes….it’s absolutely true that the USB reaches the computer first. That’s what I think should still be easy to solve. We are in 2023 and this should be possible. We can make all these crazy IT solutions in the world, but THIS rather “simple” thing cannot be done? Really? I’m not an IT geek, but I doubt that this is impossible.

Where I’m at now is considering selling my RME Babyface Pro fs and buy an audio interface with dedicated s/Pdif and forget about USB. Never had so many issues after upgrading from my old Focusrite Saffire. But that old shit just worked….until it didn’t. So I was really disappointed with the limitations if the USB solution.

musicmad · Jul 20th 2023

Why doesn't the aggregated device solve your problem? Doesn't it allow you to reamp using the Kemper USB in and outputs while using the RME for monitoring?

virango · Jul 20th 2023

The aggregated device doesn‘t route the audio from device to device.

Quote from b_ryan

And yes….it’s absolutely true that the USB reaches the computer first. That’s what I think should still be easy to solve.

It is: the solution is an audio routing software as I mentioned in my previous post.

virango · Jul 20th 2023

Just tried GroundControl (it‘s free), works, even if not plug and play. Had to add the profiler as input device and set lower latency.

musicmad · Jul 20th 2023

Quote from virango

The aggregated device doesn‘t route the audio from device to device.

Not sure that is needed though? (also not sure that was a comment for me :))

virango · Jul 20th 2023

Quote from musicmad

Not sure that is needed though? (also not sure that was a comment for me :))

This is what b_ryan wants according to the description in his first post:

Quote from b_ryan

I wish to be able to just turn on my Mac and my Kemper and just have it hooked up like normal (speakers to the audio interface) and be able to hear myself playing.

Quote from b_ryan

I wish NOT to be limited to listen to my live recording through the monitor of the audio track in Logic Pro. Why can't the Kempers USB signal reach my audio interface? Why do I have to connect speakers to the Kemper to hear it?

musicmad · Jul 21st 2023

Yeah. My suggestion is to accomplish that part in the analog domain. Having the Kemper analog outputs connected to the RME.

Michael_dk · Jul 21st 2023

Quote from musicmad

Yeah. My suggestion is to accomplish that part in the analog domain. Having the Kemper analog outputs connected to the RME.

That was my first thought - but wouldn't that introduce latency in the sense that what is being monitored is slightly delayed compared to what is being recorded? Since the recorded signal wouldn't go through the DA conversion.

Maybe worth a shot to see how it works out in practice.

christianbad · Jul 21st 2023

Michael_dk regarding latency

there´s a detailed examination about this here:

Thread

extra latency using SPDIF

Hi

I have just got a (used) Kemper and I am happy with it !
I have a question about recording from SPDIF versus analog output.

I have simultaneously recorded the same signal ('Master stereo') from both outputs (SPDIF Out and Main Out) with the same USB audio interface (NI Komplete Audio 6). The track recorded from the SPDIF output is 3.5ms later than the track recorded from the analog output. Do you know where this extra latency comes from? the Kemper? my recording system? Do you experience the…

Emmanuel

Feb 4th 2018

Michael_dk · Jul 21st 2023

Quote from christianbad

Michael_dk regarding latency

there´s a detailed examination about this here:

Thread

extra latency using SPDIF

Hi

I have just got a (used) Kemper and I am happy with it !
I have a question about recording from SPDIF versus analog output.

I have simultaneously recorded the same signal ('Master stereo') from both outputs (SPDIF Out and Main Out) with the same USB audio interface (NI Komplete Audio 6). The track recorded from the SPDIF output is 3.5ms later than the track recorded from the analog output. Do you know where this extra latency comes from? the Kemper? my recording system? Do you experience the…

Emmanuel

Feb 4th 2018

Yup - I'm the second poster in that thread

Bendagoros · Jul 21st 2023

Quote from Michael_dk

...Because they are not connected directly...?
There's a computer in between, right?
So the signal from the Kemper reaches the computer. How can the kemper decide what the computer does with the audio from that point?

This guy is goddamn right.

pippopluto · Jul 21st 2023

I'd support the idea of changing your audio interface. I've been using my KPA with an RME Fireface via SPDIF, and everything has been working flawlessly since day one. The RME is connected to my PC, my Profiler and my monitors at the same time, and should I need further inputs I can use the Fireface as a mixing desk as well (actually, two synth modules and a mic are always connected).

Honestly, I can't see what the fuss is about the new USB capability helping to get rid of "all those cables", as I've been reading since KAOS 9: when I need the Kemper elsewhere I just tidily disconnect 6 cables (live wire, USB, SPDIF, Network, exp pedal), tidily hook five of them to the back of my monitor, and pack the KPA into his bag along with the exp pedal and his patch cable and the Remote. In the bag's pockets there already are another power cable, stage network cable and two signal cables (guitar and desk in case there's no stage DI (rehearsals, small stages, parties, jams and the like)). The whole operation takes about two minutes.

This is IMO the simplest possible setup for the highest possible versatility.
HTH

musicmad · Jul 22nd 2023

Quote from Michael_dk

That was my first thought - but wouldn't that introduce latency in the sense that what is being monitored is slightly delayed compared to what is being recorded? Since the recorded signal wouldn't go through the DA conversion.
Maybe worth a shot to see how it works out in practice.

I understood OP challenge as mainly a challenge about being able to monitor during reamping. So a bit of latency shouldn't be a problem here.

Looking forward to a stable release of the USB functionality so I can dive in a bit more myself.

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