Anyone tried a Fractal FM9 or Axe FX?

    Quote from musicmad

    Even if I don't like a pack I bought, I don't regret it. It just means that I supported a person that might deliver my next pack that I do like. I have saved SO much money just using the Kemper in the first place.

    Well put. For the money I've spent on several commercial profiles I couldn't get a single high end stomp box, so I'm good with the math.

    They all have their place and I haven't found any crap ones once they're tweaked a tiny bit for my guitars and played at stage volume or on a recording in the context of a song.

    I also don't think it's cool to bash ToneJunkie. He's just trying to make a living. If you don't like his personality just move on, but he knows his stuff.

    Quote from Alienator

    Yep, this!

    (says the person who owns literally everything from TJ, MB, BM and many more but only uses very few profiles, regularly. What madness).


    Also: In my experience, if you are not able to "find" good profiles you will also fall into an endless tweaking rabbit hole with a modeller. It really isn't that difficult to find good profiles, imho. Go with the amps you like and start from there. There are so unbelievably many good profiles, even the factory profiles are better than any modeller, imo. Guitarists should better be able to play guitar, though, there are no profiles for bad playing.

    If someone is not able to find many good profiles because the majority of them don't seem to suit their pickups, but they are able to dial in good tones for said pickups on real amps and modelers, then why does it follow that they'd fall into an endless tweaking rabbit hole with a modeler?


    Surely quite the opposite - instead of searching thru countless profiles looking for ones where the amp was profiled with suitable settings, they'd just quickly set the tone controls on the amp model to their preference and hey presto. Of course they'd probably also want to tweak further "under the hood" if it's a sound they're going to use often - but the same goes for the Kemper. It's just that, on a modeler, getting to that stage of a basic nicely balanced amp tone on which to build is a matter of turning a few virtual dials, not hours of auditioning sounds other people have dialed in for their instruments to see if any work with your instrument.


    The Kemper's profiling tech is great, no question it sounds and feels real - but it (currently) has limitations as to how far you can successfully modify each tone beyond what was captured. Hence why people look to modelers either as an addition or an alternative.


    Sounds like you've had no problem finding profiles that work for you - but if you browse enough Kemper threads here and elsewhere you'll notice people's experiences vary wildly in this respect. Some people do seem to like just about everything they try, but without hearing the tones they're using though their specific guitar/pickups, it's hard to say whether it's just that these people aren't as picky, or whether the gtrs/pickups they're using are maybe more compatible with a wider range of profiles (e.g. I have noticed it seems easier to find good sounds for my single coil strat - however I hardly ever use this, prefer humbuckers!)


    If someone's not easily finding many profiles that work for their specific guitar/pickups or style, I don't think it's necessarily - as you seem to imply - that they're doing something wrong. Could be that if you heard what they're hearing - e.g. some of the same profiles you like, but thru their gear - you might agree!

    Quote from musicmad

    Even if I don't like a pack I bought, I don't regret it. It just means that I supported a person that might deliver my next pack that I do like. I have saved SO much money just using the Kemper in the first place.

    Good for you, I guess... You're happy to part with money for something that you'd never have bought if you'd have tried it first. Most people aren't.


    Sure, as someone else pointed out, it's still a lot cheaper than the actual gear (and necessary recording equipment).


    But still, these are businesses, not charities.


    Someone, Kemper or 3rd party, should set up an official market-place where you can actually try profiles before buying (e.g. for a limited time, or with some intermittent noise like a lot of VST demos) - this would put a stop to the amount of money these companies take from unsatisfied customers, and make the whole Kemper user experience FAR better.


    And yes, no-one's forcing anyone to buy profiles - but unless you're very lucky with Rig Exchange, it is the only way to expand the Kemper sound library.

    I don't seem to understand, maybe it's me. Could you please more specific and just name your pickups and your style and what the exact issues are, that you are experiencing? Maybe orhers have the same gear. You could even open a new thread and ask for help, if there is something you are trying to solve. Also, I did not say "follow", I said "in my experience", that's different.

    I can say this: traditional pickups and styles work great with the Kemper, for me and everybody I talked to or played with and who uses Kemper. It is not hard to find good sounding profiles of amps I already own and play. It gets even easier when I focus on my skills, musicality and mood, as I already said. I am no modern metal player, so this part is up to those guys. But at the end, there is no need for pain and torture - nobody is forced to use whatever gear if it is not somehow immediately right. Go with what works best for you, your guitars, style, work flow, pickups, feel, etc. If you have made sure, as I said, that your skills, technique, musicality and your mere ability to simply enjoy music (!... big problem with many so called guitarists nowadays!) is not the real issue, then maybe you should just consider different gear?

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

    Like 3

    There is a marketplace coming. Kempers.

    Quote from alligatorlizard

    In case any of this is aimed at my reply above, you wouldn't believe how deeply I've dived into all the parameters on the Kemper... And what I've concluded (as have many others btw) is that essentially there's only so much you can do if the profile is not already pretty much in the ballpark tonally - yes, you can EQ, pre and post amp, till it sounds balanced, but if it was way off in the first place, it's not going to sound much like a real amp anymore once you've applied more than a certain amount of EQ. What the Kemper's various parameters are good for is refining an already good-sounding profile into a really perfect one. On the profiles I use a lot, I'll adjust (if necessary) every single parameter available (starting with Definition) until I find the sweet spots, I use studio EQ before the amp stack to optimise the signal going in (including level), broad stokes with the amp stack EQ, then much more detailed final EQ (and filters) in the DAW.


    And all this is very different to a modeler - fundamentally, in a modeller, you can set the amps tone controls in a way that simulates how a real amp would react (depending on how good the modeler is of course), so a basic amp tone is very easy to dial up as long as you've got half-decent ears. With Kemper profiles, you're always working with a tone someone else has dialed in to suit their gtr/pickups/tastes. If you're lucky, you'll find some where their settings are very close to what you'd ideally dial in on the same amp. Then, the Kemper can sound glorious, and all the parameters you mention and more can help refine it further to you needs, and subtle EQ works very well for idealising the tone. But finding these golden profiles is the tricky bit, and they'll be different ones for different people, so recommendations and audio demos only go so far.

    I agree and don't agree.


    Both always rely on the starting tone. If the profile is "crap" you can't then make it good - agree.


    But you also assume that with a modeller the starting sound is good. It isn't always....authentic is also not awalys better, this is why liquid profiles have little interest for me.


    So I go back to my point, the time is "only" to audition sounds and I agree that is a pain. Once I have a good base sound, very little tweaking is required. You have the same issue with the modeller which is the base sound needs to be good but you can't change the base sound of the amp and delve into IR's etc.


    It goes back to can you find a sound you like instantly, for some they can. If you can't then I don't think the KPA is anymore frustrating that any other - heard so many times that people have to deep dive on a fractal to get their sound..

    Do your own. I was not happy till i did. I paid for 3 packs, never again. Never satisfied on rig manager either. Going to be interesting when pro musos put their profiles up on the new platform. How does this sound good?


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    Anyone who wants my family pack of his can have it.

    Quote from goldensheaf

    Do your own. I was not happy till i did. I paid for 3 packs, never again. Never satisfied on rig manager either. Going to be interesting when pro musos put their profiles up on the new platform. How does this sound good?


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    Anyone who wants my family pack of his can have it.

    This issue relates to all paid profiles....they never sound the same as the videos.


    Why? Couple of reasons I believe:

    1) Everything in the signal chain has an effect - I found this when others have shared profiles with me and they sounded awful

    2) Post processing - it's never clear what has be added


    So I don't think there is an intention to mislead. I have used commercial profiles and many are biased towards a sound but always different.

    One thing is for sure, the Kemper, Fractal, and Helix make excellent clean sounds. Add any gain and you are at the beginning of a maze. I'm comfortable with Kemper because I've owned it for 2+ years and learned 60% of it. I've been wanting to try a Fractal but since LP is coming out, guess the Fractal is on hold for a while more.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Quote from V8guitar

    Its out now dude!!! Im sure you've seen it but....

    Its out? when? Butter my buns an stick me in the oven!

    Your right an i wrote a big long reply about this an decided not to post. I have been doing lots of experimenting an have come up with my own thing that works. There lots of variables going on with profiling an it does not matter what pro gear these guys have it will not work if these things are in the chain. Plus it does not mean they have good taste in tone.

    I do agree with that actually, and that's the reason I abandoned modelers entirely and went all Kemper for the last few years - modelers were just not feeling or sounding realistic to me, not fun or inspiring to play. I guess what I'm saying is that I've never had a problem dialing in a virtual amp to get a balanced tone for my pickups (and btw, by balanced, I don't mean flat, but you know, just the right amount of weight and bite and body, not too harsh or too muddy) - but of course, if the amp model isn't good in itself, it's still not going to be an inspiring sound! With the Kemper, profiles almost always sound/feel like a real amp, but often an amp where the tone controls are not set in the way I'd like it. If it's not too far off, you can definitely EQ it into shape, but, for example, if it's not got enough "bite", you can't really add that in in a way that sounds the same as actually cranking the treble knob on a real amp (tho I hear Liquid profiling has just dropped, so maybe now...?) Anyway, point being, if I'm going to try another modeler, might as well try the best e.g. Fractal - my hope is that the amp models there ARE good enough, so that simply setting the tone/gain controls to taste will get me both a nicely balanced tone and a realistic amp sound/feel - but who knows, maybe I'll be disappointed, or find it does take a lot more under-the-hood tweaking. Worth a shot tho I figure, or I'll always be wondering! I guess I'll have to report back once I've tried an FM3 ;)

    Quote from Alienator

    I don't seem to understand, maybe it's me. Could you please more specific and just name your pickups and your style and what the exact issues are, that you are experiencing? Maybe orhers have the same gear. You could even open a new thread and ask for help, if there is something you are trying to solve. Also, I did not say "follow", I said "in my experience", that's different.

    I can say this: traditional pickups and styles work great with the Kemper, for me and everybody I talked to or played with and who uses Kemper. It is not hard to find good sounding profiles of amps I already own and play. It gets even easier when I focus on my skills, musicality and mood, as I already said. I am no modern metal player, so this part is up to those guys. But at the end, there is no need for pain and torture - nobody is forced to use whatever gear if it is not somehow immediately right. Go with what works best for you, your guitars, style, work flow, pickups, feel, etc. If you have made sure, as I said, that your skills, technique, musicality and your mere ability to simply enjoy music (!... big problem with many so called guitarists nowadays!) is not the real issue, then maybe you should just consider different gear?

    Ah, I was wondering how long till someone said "well get different pickups then!" :) You know, I have considered this - a standard Les Paul (or possibly SG) would be my choice - I've seen a lot of videos where some of the Kemper profiles I've rejected do sound great on these instruments. Thing is tho, I like my current pickups. I have a few gtrs, but my main recording one is a Patrick Eggle - kind of a British PRS - with DiMarzio MoJoe and PAFJoe pickups - the, MoJoe (bridge) in particular is a bit "thicker" than most stock humbuckers, which is probably where some of my problems with profile-compatibility lie, BUT I have never have a problem dialing in the right settings for them on real amps or modelers - and when the settings are right, they're incredibly articulate/dynamic and "vocal" almost (they are after all Satch signature pickups!). They also work great for both lead and rhythm playing, and for both aggressive and more lyrical styles. So, while I might still get a Les Paul or an SG at some point just to add to the gtr arsenal, I want amplification-gear that works with my Patrick Eggle too!


    But here's what it is that I think you're not understanding - I'm not experiencing any "issues" here as such - I know the Kemper inside out in terms of tweaking, I know what a good guitar sound is and what it isn't, and I'm good as far as "skills, technique, musicality and the mere ability to enjoy music" go, thank you very much ;) And I think I did already mention that I have found a lot of fantastic profiles that do work perfectly with these pickups. It's just that I've had to sift thru rather an inordinately large amount of profiles to find them... I write and record music for a living, so often need a specific tone for a track, and time is often a consideration. My point was simply that (in the context of this discussion of KPA vs Fractal) I find it easier and quicker to dial in a tone on a modeler than hunt thru large amounts of tones that other people have dialing for their gear - and this is the reason why I, like the OP, am considering a Fractal as an additional tool.


    I think what irked me about your posts here was you seem to imply that if someone finds they have to go thru a lot of profiles just to find a few that work with their pickups, then they must be doing something wrong. In contrast, I'm being rather generous with my hypothesis for why people's experience varies in this regard. e.g. I could just say "well, some people have no taste" - but I'm open to the fact that different pickups, and styles, do play a large factor.


    Again, to clarify, it's not that I think the majority of profiles are "bad" - in fact almost all I've tried I would deem to be "good" profiles. But put it this way - if you go into a recording studio, and plug into an amp, do you just leave the dials as they are, or adjust them to suit your pickups and the sound you want? I can assure, any producer or engineer would insist on the latter! You'd want to get the best sound out of the amp first, before any additional EQ-ing etc. What I do find with the majority of profiles is they sound like amps where I'd never leave the dials where they were if I plugged into it sounding that way, and that there's only so much you can do with the pre or post EQ to fix that. However, I hear Liquid Profiling has just dropped (or at least the beta), so fingers crossed, all these points may be moot soon!!


    And btw, Kemper themselves are freely admitting these limitations I'm mentioning in their press-releases for Liquid Profiling.


    Anyway, keep enjoying the Kemper, as shall I, but - unless LP really does change things radically in terms of more realistic tone stacks - then I shall also soon be enjoying an FM3 as well ;)

    Quote from alligatorlizard

    unless LP really does change things radically in terms of more realistic tone stacks

    For what I'm hearing since yesterday, it does...difficult to get a bad tone, doesn't matter where you put the dials...even on your existing ones (Tried only Fenders and Marshalls 'till now

    If something is too complicated, then you need to learn it better

    Like 1

    Dude🙂, everything seems all right then. Thanks for sharing but who said you should change pickups?

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

    Quote from Alienator

    Dude🙂, everything seems all right then. Thanks for sharing but who said you should change pickups?

    "...maybe you should just consider different gear?"


    We've already established I intend to try a different amplification unit (FM3, the reason this conversation started), so what's left other than guitar/pickups? You were talking about plectrums?

    Quote from alligatorlizard

    "...maybe you should just consider different gear?"


    We've already established I intend to try a different amplification unit (FM3, the reason this conversation started), so what's left other than guitar/pickups? You were talking about plectrums?

    Gear = Fractal, Line6, QC


    Dude :D.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio