What do you guys think of this from Cliff of Axe Fx?

  • It's the usual toss coming from the Axe FX camp. It's because of the Axe FX fan boys that made me make the decision never to buy one of their products. That, and the torrent of abuse Tony Mckenzie got for daring to ask Cliff if he had an EU approval for the Axe FX 2. Cliff never did answer him but resorted to insulting him and trying to humiliate him on a public forum.


    I'm happy with my decision to buy a Kemper.

  • Not sure anything could help mine either. I mean, I'm still crap after all these years. Oh man.


    It's the usual toss coming from the Axe FX camp. It's because of the Axe FX fan boys that made me make the decision never to buy one of their products. That, and the torrent of abuse Tony Mckenzie got for daring to ask Cliff if he had an EU approval for the Axe FX 2. Cliff never did answer him but resorted to insulting him and trying to humiliate him on a public forum.


    I'm happy with my decision to buy a Kemper.


    I've watched Tony's Kemper-test videos and he seems like a truly genuine guy. I'm sure he would've felt the question fair and relevant.


    Based on everything I've heard of them, the choice between Christophe and Cliff as recipients for my dollars and loyalty is certainly a no-brainer. Just sayin', as they say...


  • There's more amazing "facts" from Cliff about Kemper! :saint:
    As expected, before the end of the year Cliff Burgundy stays classy and manages to come up with some more FUD "facts" on his own forum. His deep knowledge and understanding about other products is astounding.
    http://forum.fractalaudio.com/…ws-starting-appear-5.html
    post 81.
    "Don't make me pull this car over...
    FWIW, there are better stock IRs in the Axe-Fx IMO. Factory cab #15 sounds better to me. That Morgan IR is too short IMO (approx. 256 samples) due to memory and CPU limitations in the device from which it was captured. You really need at least 20 ms (1024 samples) to fully capture the response of a guitar speaker. "


    Knowing he can't post his FUD "facts" on TGP anymore, he knows others will when reading his post, spreading his ideas.
    post 167 & 171 on the gear page
    http://www.thegearpage.net/boa…mper-clips.1629076/page-9


    As previously mentioned, one of several "facts" from Cliff proven false. Cliff quote: "Kemper's dirty little secret is that internally it only runs at 22.05 kHz."


    The year is not over and I hope that Cliff stays classy, gets some presents and kindness during christmas to cheer him up so users can get more amazing "facts" from him next year. :) He must go crazy now with more digital amp products on the market than ever and many users prefering those over fractal. At least three Amplifire threads have been deleted from the FAS forum off topic section, no Helix thread deleted yet. A huge number of Kemper threads are locked up in the Fas dungeons together with some chained kemper units being uncomfortably probed, measured and poked at.

  • First thing that came to my mind reading this:
    1. Why Cliff try to predict KPA IR length ?
    2. And why only based of the kipr file length - it may be not FIR filter?


    How he came to conclusion that KPA use IR convolution?
    This is stupid idea - because MIDI is only 7 bit and 1 midi byte is like half 8 bit value( DSP in kpa is in 24 bit precision) .


    If it is some IIR (Infinite impulse response) then he should know how to really easy to predict equivalent IR length of the unknown IIR filter.
    Just use impulse response and on the output you will know how long is the IIR filter response(+response of some anti-aliasing filters).


    From the PR standpoint it is cleaver to show that other product use short file - so the impulse response is short - so it is bad .



    Example


    my kipr CAB file have 844 bytes minus lets say 300 bytes for sysex commands.
    So we have left with 500 bytes with valuable data for CAB - but only 7 bit data.


    Ok, we neglace the fact of the 7 bit and 8 bit - so we have 24 bit DSP so we have to divide this 500 /3.


    We have 166 bytes of data .
    Hey Cliff - KPA IR is 166 byte length(or even maybe half of this because of 7 bit precision) - 80 byte IR - can you believe? !!!!!!
    So it have to sound worse then1024 or 2056 AXE super IR.
    But why KPA did sound good with such short IR ?
    Because it is no IR!!!!

  • Sysex is defined by F0 byte to start, 2 bytes for manufacturer and device ids, and F7 to end. Everything else is completely up to the interpretting device. So the bytes here are likely 8, not 7 bits. Kemper doesnt conform to this anyway. Youll notice their files have a value after F0, which can be 1 or 2 bytes, which seems to indicate the tag size. Then a 00 byte to terminate the size, then 2033, which is the manufacturer and device - common for all tags in .kipr files. Followed by 00, then two bytes for the tag type, 00, then 2 more for the tag id.

  • Sysex is defined by F0 byte to start, 2 bytes for manufacturer and device ids, and F7 to end. Everything else is completely up to the interpretting device. So the bytes here are likely 8, not 7 bits. Kemper doesnt conform to this anyway. Youll notice their files have a value after F0, which can be 1 or 2 bytes, which seems to indicate the tag size. Then a 00 byte to terminate the size, then 2033, which is the manufacturer and device - common for all tags in .kipr files. Followed by 00, then two bytes for the tag type, 00, then 2 more for the tag id.


    Maybe you are right. About tags and ID -I took it into the calculation. but i didn't found any value above 7F in my cab file:). Thats why i still believe those are 7 bit values.
    Never mind.
    That was not my point - just I do not believe that such DSP guru isn't aware all of this - and he still belive that KPA uses FIR.
    Yet he and his guys on TGP( on helix vs KPA thread also) are telling that short file ->short IR -> bad sound.

  • I only know all this bc im working on a program that will find all .kipr with the same profile data. I could give two craps what cliff says. It kind of bugs me when his minions start spouting numbers as part of their superiority complex outside the fas forums tho

  • What bothers me so much is the obvious truth of it all. Kemper profiles are based on real eigs, compared to the real rigs at profiling time. Most of the time the results are virtually indistinguishable. Talking speculatively about how it works or IR points or sampling rates or aliasing is all moot - the sound is the sound and if its the same sound, it sounds real. Nothing else matters. Dsp chips and horsepower are irrelevant.


    You have to remember too that Cliff made most of his claims over 10 firmwares ago, so that should tell you all u need to know about realism. Fanboys spouting stuff like "the axe modeling is so authentic. You cant get those results on a Kemper". What results? What is the real rig you are comparing to? Your imagined perception of the sound? The Kemper's realism isnt imagined. Its a direct A/B every time.

  • I'm a bit of a nerd and do enjoy comparing technical details of how these digital devices do what they do, but I'm also a musician, so I played through both and used my ears to determine which unit I liked better (AxeFx2 against a Kemper). Obviously the Kemper got my vote. :thumbup:


    In this case I don't think it really matters if someone from a company reports on how they think a competing product does what it does, or determines "better" as some kind of benchmark or processor statistic. That's totally missing the point of a device that's designed to inspire music creation.


    It's how it feels and sounds to the individual that matters, and I personally I think the Kemper was superior in that regard, so I took the KPA home and left the AxeFx2 on the shelf.


    IMO, individuals in any industry should keep their opinions of competing products to at most, the very occasional humorous jab. A company (or employee of) participating in forum threads like the ones linked above is a slippery slope indeed. Good PR is a hard thing for a company to earn and even harder to keep.


    A classy company will stand behind its product and let it prove itself, without feeling the need to throw stones or tout meaningless numbers and stats in an attempt to paint an image that a competing product doesn't "sound good". Use your ears. duh!


    (mini rant over) :)

  • Obviously the AxeFX does some things very good....it has "Sounds on steroids"..


    Even some of the AxeFX Standard profiles (like the Recto Orange Mod) give you an idea what the AxeFX is all about.My very first impression about the AxeFx was exactly this:"this sound,feel and tone is on steroids"..many highly capable EQs,Compressors,noise gates etc..add very good FX to it and you will be very impressed for a while.


    You can do with it some "crazy stuff" which just makes you "sound better".Like fluid shred solo stuff making it it very easy to play high speed legato and multi-tapping stuff.Also some ultra speed picking may appear very articulated allthough you may be not the most "accurate speed picking guy if you know how to programme it.The AxeFX can do this much better than any other digital device out there and "yes!" in this regard this it may be indeed "better than the original" allthough the result has nothing to do anymore with any "original tube amp".It is just an overprocessed sound which "makes you high" while playing stuff much more easily than with any "honest" tube amp before.As I said..this is my impression.


    For me personally exactly this is a nightmare.To use these kind of "overprocessed sounds" which make you "high" for a while but as with any kind of drug..as soon as the endorphines dissapear you wake up in an "empty feel"..and you need a higher dose (aka new FWs every few days) soon.. ;)


    I like the approach of A/B the profiled sound to original tube amps you really know (through expirience and "rock history")) that they will help you making great music keeping up your inspiration for many,many years.In this regard the Kemper Profiler is unbeaten.

  • Gotta say Quantum on the Axe FX sounds so good to me, I am getting rid of my Kemper. In addition, the foot controller and editor really add the professional control and reliability I want.


    Beside, I prefer to Buy "Made in the USA" ; )

  • Gotta say Quantum on the Axe FX sounds so good to me, I am getting rid of my Kemper. In addition, the foot controller and editor really add the professional control and reliability I want.


    Beside, I prefer to Buy "Made in the USA" ; )


    Fine, take your approach :) Use whatever sounds good for you and meets your requirements. I understand your policy on supporting your country by buying products made there, even if it overwhelms sound quality and makes you biased. No problem with that.

  • [quote='lasvideo','http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php/Thread/23686-What-do-you-guys-think-of-this-from-Cliff-of-Axe-Fx/?postID=259082#post259082']


    I understand your policy on supporting your country by buying products made there, even if it overwhelms sound quality and makes you biased. No problem with that.


    Actually that is incorrect.


    I originally bought the Kemper and later bought the Axe. So there was no bias involved since I bought the Kemper first, not the Axe FX made in the US. So no regional bias in my purchase.


    Additionally I am making my decision to sell the Kemper and keep the Axe effects since I prefer the sounds of the Axe FX. So my preference to the Axe FX sound quality over the Kemper is why I am selling the Kemper , not the fact that its made in Germany. Again no regional bias here either. I just feel the Axes sound quality is better for me. ; )

  • When you upload a profile to the Kemper, it secretly downloads 7.5 gigs of IR data for that profile - additionally, all sound processing is done in the cloud (realtime) which is hooked up directly to Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland. Here, cat is out of the bag.