For millionth time... Why is Kemper profiles so trebly/fizzy??

    My experience using the KPA for recording is I'm always sacrificing something to make it work in the mix with my band, which means I'm almost never happy. Even reamped for the 5th time on a particular track last night. Articulate profiles cut too much and the treble gets ice-picky, not to mention often lack "body"; darker profiles "fit" better but I lose pretty much all the character I worked to track and it gets lost in the mix.


    KPA is a great tool for live use, but I'm really unhappy with it for studio and recording purposes.

    Quote from MementoMori

    My experience using the KPA for recording is I'm always sacrificing something to make it work in the mix with my band, which means I'm almost never happy. Even reamped for the 5th time on a particular track last night. Articulate profiles cut too much and the treble gets ice-picky, not to mention often lack "body"; darker profiles "fit" better but I lose pretty much all the character I worked to track and it gets lost in the mix.


    KPA is a great tool for live use, but I'm really unhappy with it for studio and recording purposes.

    You're profiling your own amps?

    Quote from MementoMori

    My experience using the KPA for recording is I'm always sacrificing something to make it work in the mix with my band, which means I'm almost never happy. Even reamped for the 5th time on a particular track last night. Articulate profiles cut too much and the treble gets ice-picky, not to mention often lack "body"; darker profiles "fit" better but I lose pretty much all the character I worked to track and it gets lost in the mix.


    KPA is a great tool for live use, but I'm really unhappy with it for studio and recording purposes.

    I can only suggest profiling amps with a tone you feel is optimal to begin with and then recording both the amp vs profile in mix. Not gonna say it will be "identical", because it Most likely won't be, but it is the ultimate test perhaps in terms of perspective.


    My own struggle is when I have a real tone that I feel is cutting enough, but still have a certain level of depth. That "depth" is not always easy to carry over to the profile while sustaining the dynamics as they are. The worse the monitoring the less you notice it, of course. So whenever I profile anything at all that will be the focus.

    Quote from mnewse614

    go to 3:30 for the comparison, in the end none of them sound like the source amp at all


    Did he record the real amp without the OD pedal for any portion of the test? I mean, if he's going to put together a test like that, he should've compared the modelers to the real amp by itself (without the OD pedal) for at least one round.

    Quote from mnewse614

    go to 3:30 for the comparison

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    , in the end none of them sound like the source amp at all

    The Helix tone in the video demonstrates what I was talking about above, which is a lack of punch, "moving air", whatever you want to call it... it sounds anemic compared to the others.

    seems like this thread has run it's course.


    the OP hasn't responded in some time and somewhat unrelated opinions that were voiced before and in other threads are being re-stated here.
    If this thread doesn't go back on topic, it will be closed.


    But it is my impression that everything about this topic has already been said anyway.


    thanks for reading :)

    True.

    Actually to address the topic directly, the greatest thing in the Kemper is the high frequency representation, what people perceive as trebly in the Kemper is the main reason that I chose and kept the Kemper. Yes you can get good sounds from other modelers but as soon as you switch to the Kemper, it's like a blanket has been lifted from the speakers and all the sudden, you fingers are connected and the sound is so responsive to how you touch the strings like no other modeler.


    I don't call it fizz., I call it hairy sizzle as it's much more complex and defined than all the other modelers I've tried,

    Quote from Dimi84

    Well, Ola doesn't do too much to guitar tones themselves (relatively speaking to my perception of things, at least). For guitar tones I just don't think kemper is as ahead of everything else as many assume. I could have used axe 8, helix, even my pod xt in a few cases and been happy with the tone in mix without much studio trickery at all if we are talking about guitar tones only.

    I don’t know, Dimi. I really tried to use his profiles pack, and... Very underwhelming stuff.


    Different guitars, different pickups, maybe. I just try them direct, with no processing in the DAW.


    Just doesn’t strike me as some magic in the micing technique. And really, there should be no magic in placing a mic near a cone.


    Still, try those profiles for yourself and compare to other profiles by commercial profilers.


    Perhaps it’s more of a use if you’re mixing his way with his tone, not ruling that out. If you look at his videos where he demoes gear other than amps though, you can definitely tel that something’s not right.


    Heck, he puts out videos saying all amps can sound the same IIRC. That takes really good mixing skills. Hell, Sinmix did the same thing when he compared all the various modellers and the Kemper. I bet the Mooer was next.


    As for @DonPetersen idea of closing the thread, there’ll just be another in a few weeks, likely from the same person haha. These complaint threads keep coming up until something gives and the unhappy user moves on.

    Quote from nightlight

    Heck, he puts out videos saying all amps can sound the same IIRC. That takes really good mixing skills. Hell, Sinmix did the same thing when he compared all the various modellers and the Kemper. I bet the Mooer was next.

    Only me and an ex forum member took a guess in that blind test and both of us got it correct (i don't think they sounded the same, very close, but the mids are different). Sinmix didn't change the mix in each sample. Just same backing with same DI through different units/software.


    I believe the main reason why we think Ola sounds "the same" from one video to another is playing style. I think it gives the impression that the tone is much closer, let alone the fact that high gain tones are relatively similar to begin with, considering all the compression; let alone similar cabs and micing.


    What I like about refining process is that I am able to use a (relatively...) similar starting point with my miced up tone and take it to different avenues by playing different track through kemper. You need to feed DI too though, so trying to match someone else's recording, the playing needs to be as close as possible.

    Edited once, last by Dimi84 ().

    In fact that would be something I would like to see from kemper as a feature -- a more official process for matching tracks. But as noted that is what Andy Sneap wanted and CK wasn't interested in going that route.


    It could make it easier though for some people to get a tone they like. Can do now too, but this not being "officially supported" it seems to discourage people from experimenting (which, in case of kemper, experimenting is so important imo)

    Quote from nightlight

    In that regard, I hope the Ola analogy stands. It is clear to me that the Kemper can deliver the goods.

    No doubt it can, no doubt in my mind at all.

    In fact it can also emulate a tone that has been processed in DAW for a mix, too, some times with very heavy processing as well. I have run tests trying to get the weirdest tone possible through amp + cab + mic + daw trickery... And many times, it did very well. Some of these tones in the tests were totally unusable and "extreme" and still I had a respectable level of success emulating them, depending on method used.. (refining or profiling the tone to begin with, ect, ect)

    Edited 2 times, last by Dimi84 ().

    Yes, it captures the souls of tube amps and other modelers and locks them in till eternity or until good spirited guitar players unlock the magic by releasing some of these magical beings..