Fix the Low and Mids lost Frequncies for Direct Amp Profiling

  • I think the issue of Fixing the Low and Mids lost Frequencies during the Direct Amp profiling has been underloocked for several times in the forums or even you can find this subject outside the kemper's forums. People started to go to the other directions from KPA and buy others like Axe FX cause of this known issue. Is the kemper team aware or working on fixing this issue ?

  • We are investigating situations where Direct Profiles of certain amps do not succeed.
    However, we don‘t have reports of explicitly missing low and mid frequencies, in conjunction with the Kemper DI Box.


    Can you tell us more?
    Are you going to purchase an Axe Fx to make better Direct Profiles?

  • We are investigating situations where Direct Profiles of certain amps do not succeed.
    However, we don‘t have reports of explicitly missing low and mid frequencies, in conjunction with the Kemper DI Box.


    Can you tell us more?
    Are you going to purchase an Axe Fx to make better Direct Profiles?

    ckemper,


    :) I'm not really after axe fx though. Why would I bother submitting a thread if i didn't have the attention to stay with Kemper. This is encouragement for all users rather for me being rude if you think i was :)


    Anyways, I'm using a DI BOX and every time I profile a direct amp for my Marshalls, I've noticed that another bass is added and the midrange is not the same. I'll post a recording when i get a chance very soon... In the mean time, many users will tell you the same thing if you just search in the forum

  • In respect to which sound
    bass is added
    The sound from the amp via the cabinet ?
    Then it may be the cab which thins out the sound
    Or is it when you listen to the not profiled sound of the direct out

  • Is it possible it's the DI box?


    Whatever its frequency-response behaviour is will be superimposed on the Profile.

    Maybe try recording the DI signal and feed it back into the send return. Not 100% bulletproof but should give some indication

    Kemper PowerRack | Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
    Fender Telecaster 62 re-issue chambered mahogany | Kramer! (1988 or so...) | Gibson Les Paul R7 | Fender Stratocaster HBS-1 Classic Relic Custom Shop

  • I have made a couple of Direct Profiles of my Mesa Mark V:25 and compared them to the real amp in the room. The signal chain was as follows:


    Guitar > Kemper > Mesa > ART XDirect (active DI) > Mesa 112 EV Thiele Ported Cabinet. I have Two identical cabinets.


    After making the profile I then re patched everything as follows:


    Guitar > RJM Mastermind PBC (basically acting a s VERY expensive high quality A/B switch) > PBC Amp A out > Kemper / PBC Amp B out Mesa > both power amps to a Mesa 112 sitting next to each other.


    I then level matched the speakers using a DB meter (even very small changes in volume can trick our ears into thinking one is better than another).


    Finally, I played guitar and randomly switched between amp and Kemper.


    There were definitely slight differences in the low mids and bass. They were very small differences but they were there. The real Mesa sounded SLIGHTLY fuller in the bottom end. However, in all truth I actually PREFERRED the way the Kemper sounded :-)


    I tried tweaking an EQ after the stack block but couldn't get them to match exactly.


    My guess is that the DI box is the problem but I haven't done extensive testing to check. I do know that I did try making the same profile with and ART XDirect (active) ZDirect (passive) and Two Notes Torpedo and they all sounded slightly different so I know the DI box has some impact.


    I must stress the differences were slight and I wouldn't have been able to consistently say that one was better than the other. They were just ever so slightly different.


    I am not a super high gain metal player. My idea of a great tone is somewhere between Larry Carlton and Steve Lukather with a bit of Jeff Beck thrown in for good measure. I think many of the complaints about this issue seem to come from people using seriously high levels of gain.

  • This again...


    What happens is:


    1. Some people (me included) have noticed this and wants it solved in an update or "worst case" a Kemper 2 (in case current hardware cannot handle it?)
    2. Some people pretend like the issue is a user error or doesn't exist at all, trying to joke the issue away.
    3. Repeat, and it seems like it's never solved


    It's not just direct profiling, it's miced up profiling as well that is lacking a bit of lows.


    It's a minor flaw and I dont get why it needs to be ridiculed every time it's brought up?
    Kemper is very usable as it is, it sounds great, but it COULD sound better if it didn't sometimes lack the lows/mids of the real amp.
    Bringing up an issue doesn't mean one dislikes the product.


    If there ever comes an update or Kemper 2 with "more realistic lowend response" at least me and few others knew about it while others was doing this:
    [Blocked Image: http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Lalalala-Jim-Carrey-Doesnt-Want-To-Hear-It-In-Dumb-and-Dumber.gif]




    Remember that "aliasing" issue that many experienced a couple of years ago? It was solved.
    Now, let's solve this too.



    EDIT: I'm pretty sure I've even seen the argument of "well, you dont need those lows anyway, thats for the bass"...
    That argument actually recognizes the issue.

  • Sorry for necro-bumping this, but as a beginner in that regard, I've noticed missing low end as well. I've direct-profiled my Morgan RCA35 using a Palmer DI and refined it afterwards. I tried running it through various G12H75 IR (even bought some from Celestion), as I own this speaker. But when I compare it to the cab in the room or even my OX-Box's White 75 Cab, it's much more fun to play the latter two. Of course, so much low end wouldn't probably be acceptable in a production or live situation (aka "leave room for the bass player), but I enjoy that while practicing.


    Btw., I doubt that it's due to my DI box, as the pre-installed profiles lacking low end, too (even the MB ones).


    I've bought the Profiler Stage to see, if I could replace that OX box with that. After all it's very intriguing to just turn that relatively small device, play and even home-record stuff, without a hot tube amp in the room. So far, the OX box is the winner. Am I missing something?

  • I've bought the Profiler Stage to see, if I could replace that OX box with that. After all it's very intriguing to just turn that relatively small device, play and even home-record stuff, without a hot tube amp in the room. So far, the OX box is the winner. Am I missing something?

    Ok, I'm stupid... I was clearly missing something. First of all: I had set the input gain of the return path too low. Moreover, after profiling my amp again, last night, I spend a couple of minutes refining, playing especially those licks and chords, I felt that were lacking bass response and attack (strat, position 4). The weird thing is: The profile sounds and feels better than my amp now. So, there'll be a used OX Box on Reverb soon. :P


    Lessons learned:

    1.) not only RTFM, gather as much infos about profiling as possible. It helped me to watch a couple of videos from guys like Rabea Massad, how they profile their amps

    2..) it takes more than one round of profiling

    3.) The refining process seems to be one of the few entities, that actually likes listening to your playing habits and wants to hear as much as possible to learn from it. ;P


    I still feel awkward. ;)


    Cheers

    Bollie

  • I have the kemper DI and the stage and i find bass lacking too - but Im wondering if its a volume issue? Im blasting my fender bassman to distort it (another issue already posted that) and then when I play the profile at low volumes it sounds like its lacking bass? ( a lot of that missing bass IMHO is the less volume. Is it a good Idea to add bass (using the kemper ) when profiling DI? Meaning when i'm making the profile turn the bass up on the kemper? thanks for any help

  • First of all I wolle compare the Original amp sound with the profiled at the same volume and do the comparison.

    Yes, thats the only way.


    You can't just pick a random profile , play it through a poweramp and say "this is lacking some bass"


    That makes no sense.


    The difference is SO SMALL that it in one way, it is meaningless, but it's still a fact that profiles do not sound 100% . They might sound 99% and that is really REALLY GOOD.


    But a Kemper 2 could possibly nail that 100% with some new technology





    Please note; I am NOT slamming Kemper. I LOVE IT. But one can still point out flaws and hope for them to be redeemed.