Playing response and "tone life suck"

Quote from Nikos

Oh..and yes..the Kemper is the only modeller which does not add anything to a Marshall type of profile.It is by far the "least forgiving" of all modellers because it reacts exactly like the (well) profiled amp.If you play it (Marshall circuit)on very low volume it sounds ugly.I always have said that the fractal stuff sounds like "on steroids" which is maybe a good thing celebrating ourselves as guitar heroes at very low volumes deep in the night but it does not help "in the real world".Everything "amp like" needs some volume.I can tell you that some time ago a lot of very famous producers/players used the ADA MP1 because it added a "nice compression" for "easier shred" to their beloved Marshall type of sound.Even at low volumes.Actually it was very famous for this.

i can totally relate to that. I didn’t realise that I actually LIKE some Marshalls until I got my KPA and p,ayed some Plexi style profiles. I have hated every single time I have had to use a real Marshall because they “sound ugly” as you put it. The reason is almost certainly that I was never able to get those beasts running hard enough to hit their sweet spot and start really working. As a result I just thought all Marshalls were shit. I now know that when driven properly some of them can sound glorious but I only found this out thanks to the KPA and some great profiles.

As for the OPs original post there are two possible problems.

1 - noise gate on the input settings is killing the sound. Just turn it off then increase very gradually until it cuts unwanted noise wihout affecting tone and feel.

2 - playing quietly or even silently (IEM) is just a totally different experience to playing a real valve amp at stage volumes. That’s just physics not a flaw of the KPA.

Yes my friend..Marshall's were all "we had" untill the late 80s.Fenders were "for clean" and crunchy blues while Mesa Boogies were to expensive for almost all people I knew back then untill the Caliber series and this two channel pre(forget it's name).

There was quite some research and know how of how to make a JMP or a JCM "ready for shred" with modifications,different cabs/speakers and of course pedals.This was also the time when this "all knobs to the right" myth started to sound foolish.Also the ADA MP1 and the Mesa Triaxis became the "shredders choice" for many players with a major deal.

Anyway..low volume,headphones/IEM was never (ever!) part of the Marshall type of thing.Sorry to state the obvious.Lets not forget Jim Marshall was a drummer after all..

hmmm, digitech freqout?

Quote from Wheresthedug

i can totally relate to that. I didn’t realise that I actually LIKE some Marshalls until I got my KPA and p,ayed some Plexi style profiles. I have hated every single time I have had to use a real Marshall because they “sound ugly” as you put it. The reason is almost certainly that I was never able to get those beasts running hard enough to gphit their sweet spot and start really working. As a result I just though all Marshalls were shit. I now know that when driven properly some of them can sound glorious but I only found this out thanks to the KPA and some great profiles.

As for the OPs original post there are two possible problems.

1 - noise gate on the input settings is killing the sound. Just tirn it off then increase very gradually until it cuts unwanted noise wihout affecting tone and feel.

2 - playing quietly or even silently (IEM) is just a totally different experience to playing a real valve amp at stage volumes. That’s just physics not a flaw of the KPA.

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How coincidental...

I too had no idea I liked Plexi until Kemper. I had never played a real one, but dang... great tones!

Neither did any of these get to play a plexi on 10 until they did....

Holy crap!!!

CelticGibson i remember watching that video when it came out. It totally proves the point I was making. When run to their sweet spot in the right context amps like this can be glorious. Unfortunately, most of us never get the chance to run them that way so have no idea what they can do. Those who got the chance to use them as intended in the late 60’s and earl 70’s (before we had decent PAs) can only try to remember what it sounded like because they are now totally deaf as a result

It's like owning a Ferrari and expecting to get the most out of it by going shopping to your local supermarket. Ain't gonna happen.

The pain on their faces proves that you are better off with a Kemper if you want those tones without the pain. No gain no pain eh?

This IEM thing is indeed a very difficult issue.

I also would like to hear more tips and tricks on how to get "the feel" with these..

Quote from Alienator

It is hard to explain what I mean but maybe you experienced a similar thing:

The Kemper is perfect for strumming stuff. The sound itself is always perfect, yes, no complains about that.

But let me exaggerate to make clear what I mean: My problem occurs not only with slower solo playing and arpegiated stuff but especially when I play fast single notes - "technical stuff" with let's say a high gain Plexi profile (scales, arpegios, tapping) the expected response is not a hundred percent there while play. The Kemper does not react as expected (=tube amp), it seems to suck life from my playing and my fingers at every single note that I don't hit hard and clear enough. Does this make sense? The notes seem to die out much easier and faster than with my amps or even modellers. I have to hit the strings very much harder and play much more accurately to achieve a similar tonal result which can be disturbing while playing. The Kemper is not at all forgiving with sloppier playing or weakly hitting a note within a fast passage - the note will die out much more easier. So the amp feeling while playing is not realy there. I've tried with compressors, boosts etc. but this does not really fix it.

Does this make sense for you? Is it a mere "sustain issue"? Do I miss anything or have you experienced similar issues? How do you fix this?

Thanks

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I hear you! I usually play with my fingers (no pick) through semi dirty cleanish amp. I noticed the difference in dynamics between kemper and tube amps the minute I started using the kemper. The sound is great and the dynamics are close but not there yet.

This is my first post here on the forum but I wanted to share my experience hopefully it would be useful to crazy people like myself and you. I bought hundreds of profiles and messed with almost all of the settings in the KPA and still I couldn't fix the problem, until I came across some videos on youtube that helped me a lot. check out the Fryette Modeling Workshop Videos on Youtube:

I ended up buying an old valvulator (on reverb) followed by a Glass-A tube buffer followed by a Sarno Black Box. They are all tube buffers that helps your guitar pickups interact with a tube stage before it goes into kemper. The dynamics and sparkly tube pixie dust is back (or at least I think it is back).

I like the valvulator more than the glass A because it adds some balls and oomph to the signal. both are unity gain buffers so no change in volume or frequency response. Just change in dynamics and playability. I'm still waiting for my black box to come so I can evaluate it against the valvulator and glass A.

Please let me know if this helps at all.

Cheers,

Ehab

Shame that won't really work for those of us with wireless units...

Quote from FarleyUK

Shame that won't really work for those of us with wireless units...

Hmm, I never really thought of that. What about adding the buffer after the wirelesss receiver?

Quote from ehabBar

I hear you! I usually play with my fingers (no pick) through semi dirty cleanish amp. I noticed the difference in dynamics between kemper and tube amps the minute I started using the kemper. The sound is great and the dynamics are close but not there yet.

This is my first post here on the forum but I wanted to share my experience hopefully it would be useful to crazy people like myself and you. I bought hundreds of profiles and messed with almost all of the settings in the KPA and still I couldn't fix the problem, until I came across some videos on youtube that helped me a lot. check out the Fryette Modeling Workshop Videos on Youtube:

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I ended up buying an old valvulator (on reverb) followed by a Glass-A tube buffer followed by a Sarno Black Box. They are all tube buffers that helps your guitar pickups interact with a tube stage before it goes into kemper. The dynamics and sparkly tube pixie dust is back (or at least I think it is back).

I like the valvulator more than the glass A because it adds some balls and oomph to the signal. both are unity gain buffers so no change in volume or frequency response. Just change in dynamics and playability. I'm still waiting for my black box to come so I can evaluate it against the valvulator and glass A.

Please let me know if this helps at all.

Cheers,

Ehab

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this is very interesting..please keep us updated about these buffers..the Sarno looks great.

Quote from ehabBar

Hmm, I never really thought of that. What about adding the buffer after the wirelesss receiver?

I think with wireless units, most 'should' have a buffer built-in. I understand the issue can be around the impedance of the signal from a wireless unit.

Quote from ehabBar

I noticed the difference in dynamics between kemper and tube amps the minute I started using the kemper.

The only meaningful and fair comparison would be to compare an Profile you just profile you just made with the source amp.

That's why the easy A/B option is included after profiling. Otherwise you are really just comparing different amps, possibly over different monitoring setups (amp on the room vs. PROFILER over monitors).

It’s more of a general feeling of the units response rather than sound. It’s hard to explain, it’s like the difference between a tube rectified vs ss rectified amps. It’s a difference in how the notes bounce under your finger. With Kemper I feel the response is dampened a little. Like having sex with a condom lol.

Quote from ehabBar

It’s more of a general feeling of the units response rather than sound. It’s hard to explain, it’s like the difference between a tube rectified vs ss rectified amps. It’s a difference in how the notes bounce under your finger. With Kemper I feel the response is dampened a little. Like having sex with a condom lol.

Still, without profiling a set up and then comparing via the same monitoring it's probably difficult to come to safe conclusions. And from my perspective, if there's a feel difference indeed (aside from latency perhaps) there's also a sound difference too -- even if hard to hear when just listening back.

The only thing I compared was the buffer in and out of the signal chain. And it does change the feel in a positive way imo. I think the main issue is the interaction between the pickup and the input stage.

I think if you profile your own amp then use the profile on the kpa, the result maybe the same even the same feel might be copied because all the other variables are unchanged.

The problem arises when you use a different pickup or guitar. Something gets lost somehow.

Quote from Nikos

this is very interesting..please keep us updated about these buffers..the Sarno looks great.

I will post a new thread dedicated to the whole process once I compare them all. I’m excited for the sarno too. Especially the variable impedance control.

Quote from ehabBar

The only thing I compared was the buffer in and out of the signal chain. And it does change the feel in a positive way imo. I think the main issue is the interaction between the pickup and the input stage.

I think if you profile your own amp then use the profile on the kpa, the result maybe the same even the same feel might be copied because all the other variables are unchanged.

The problem arises when you use a different pickup or guitar. Something gets lost somehow.

Typically I set up a rig for a particular guitar and purpose.

Switching guitars.. Especially pickups.. It's enough to ruin whatever mojo was there, perhaps surprisingly often.

But that's quite similar between the analog source tone and profile.

If I shoot a profile with a tone set to do the mojos with a paff PU and a les paul tuned to E flat with 10s..

Then expect a JB loaded strat to "work" with that profile.. It may not. But neither would the original source tone.