On the fence between Kemper Profiling Amp and Axe FX II

    The KPA and AxeFx amp's work very different.


    Number of Amp models:
    The KPA can use unlimited numbers of profiles of real amps (1000 can be stored in the KPA at the same time).


    The AxeFx has a limited number of dedicated models for each included amp.



    Accuracy:
    The KPA's profiles are VERY close to the sound of the used real amp, cabinet, mic, mic-postion, preamp ... can be A/B'ed by the profiler


    The AxeFx may be close to the used amp, cabinet, mic, mic-position, preamp .... can only be A/B'ed by the manufacturer



    Different amp settings:
    In most cases need the KPA a new profile for different amp settings
    Even while the KPA has knobs for drive, and tone - it can sound very different when compared to the real amp - when you change any of these settings.
    Profiles of different amp channels, drive setting, and amp switches (e.g. bright/normal) are needed to capture the full amp.


    AxeFx model can be used for more amp settings e.g. different drive settings or tone stack settings.
    Even the AxeFx has no full amp model. The AxeFx needs a new amp model for each amp channel or mode.



    More amps:
    KPA - just profile the amp or search for free or commercial profiles of that amp
    AxeFx - wait for a firmware update



    Tweak the amp's:
    KPA - has all the basic options (drive, tone stack) and some advanced parameters
    AxeFx - has MUCH more options

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    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

    You make a ton of great points!!! After reading your message I am thinking back and guess the way i've viewed it has been a bit closeminded in a way, of only wanting models to be like their real life counterparts, while you can do more in the box. Lately, I'm trying to be more objective, than subjective about the gear I use. I get a lot of questions from people about gear, and I don't think it's fair if I answer in a biased point of view. So thank you for sharing the information, and even more thanks for the kind words :)

    Ah gotcha, yea that's really interesting then. I have taken cab IRs of my cabs, and to someone who doesn't know much about the Kemper (Apologies, again), it seems like a very similar process, so I would just assume that it was baked in. But that's really cool if you can profile, and then switch into other cab captures. So essentially, anyone who is making profiles isn't really making 'snapshots' but more like inserting models into the profiler for them or anyone else to use, and then tweak, very cool! I'm going to be lurking the forums a bit doing some more learning, I'm thrilled to live in a time where products like the Axe or Kemper are a thing :) And I agree, I think the downfall of true discussion is when people state opinions as facts, or take someone elses preference in gear as an insult to their own setup :/

    Quote from ckemper

    Any advanced parameter that is missing in the Profiler?


    My understanding is that the AxeFX lets you adjust things like tube bias and resistor values and how the power amp modeling interacts with the cab modeling via impedance curves. But personally, I have no interest in going that deep. Being able to have expression pedal functions change patch-by-patch is a nice feature of the AxeFX (and other modelers), but I've already mentioned this request a few times.

    Quote from ckemper

    Guys, calm down a bit.


    +1. Everyone needs to chill out. Does it really matter if Zentman is on other forums? Does that restrict him from posting his opinions on this forum? Because irrespective of how well known he is, it's just another opinion amongst millions. I have no idea who he is.


    More importantly, does it change any of your minds about the product you own? I think it's great that none of us are paid by Kemper Amplifier to market and defend their product.


    And I think if we try to censor content through weight of numbers, we really aren't going to convince anyone :thumbup:


    Win debates with the crushing voice of reason! Not through popularity contests 8o


    I know, I know. The Axe guys belittle all newcomers to their forums and quash all unwelcome dialogue. That kind of behaviour has now become synonymous with the Axe FX in general, a like it or lump it approach. The least we could do is be the anti-thesis to that kind of behaviour on the Kemper forums \m/

    I'm going to try a slightly different tack... I hope everyone will bear with me.


    Quote from HappyPicker

    Hi Everyone,


    I have been an Eleven Rack user for the last 3 or 4 years and I am ready to step up to better equipment. I had been lusting after the Axe FX II for a long time however now that the time is coming close to upgrade I am being swayed toward the Kemper Profiling Amp.


    "Better" ... how? What is it that you find lacking in the Eleven Rack?


    Quote

    I don't play live and I am not in a band, I just like to compose and play my own music at home. I love the guitar and I love a lot of various styles of music. My favorite guitar tones are the melodic tones of David Gilmour, or Mark Knopfler. But I also love the searing guitar sounds of Jimmy Page and the classic blues sound of T Bone Walker or BB King.


    Well, you're talking about low- to mid-gain tones with fairly simple effect chains.


    Any of the modelers in question (Eleven Rack, AXE II, KPA) should be able to do this.


    I'll go one step further: I have heard *excellent* sounds for these styles and genres from all three modelers. I don't think you (or anyone else, for that matter) could listen to similar tones in a blind test and identify the modeler used.


    And I'm not even going to get into "feel", at this point... Every amp "feels" different; a player learns to adapt to the nuances of the rig (using "rig" in a generic sense; not Kemper-specific).


    Quote

    The thing that I like about the Kemper Profiler is that it looks simple. There are 1000s of amp profiles, some free, and some are paid professional profiles, but all are easily accessible from a big beautiful display with dedicated tone and gain controls that are well lit and easy to see from a distance. The signal chain is simple and seems to possess all the stomp boxes and effects that I need for the tones I enjoy. The controls look well laid out and seem to all be analogous to real world amps and effects.


    Again, define "simple".


    As an Eleven Rack owner and a new (since mid-July) KPA owner, I can tell you that I had a learning curve to climb with the KPA.


    Real amps have volume and tone controls. What's the physical analogue for things like "definition", "clarity", "sag", "shape" and the other controls in the KPA's amp section? I'm not saying that these are difficult concepts to master, but they *are* new things to learn and internalize; that's going to take some time.


    The KPA *does* provide a tone stack. That's familiar territory, right? Well, the modeled EQ does *not* generally affect the amp's behavior in the same way as the tone stack on a physical amp. So even *that* level of familiarity may be something you'll need to rethink. I know I did.


    If you want simplicity, you can't do better than your Eleven Rack, IMO.


    The AFX has all kinds of fiddly parameters, many related to what one can normally accomplish only with a soldering iron and a knowledge of guitar-amp electronics. As AFX users will be quick to point out: you don't *have to* acknowledge the existence of deep editing. But when you want something that's not pre-packaged and tone-matching doesn't get you what you want, how far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go? Where do you even *start* making a systematic attempt at tweaking your tone when you have so many options and understand so few?


    Full disclosure: I don't own, and have never owned, an AFX. I *have* played every generation of AFX, covering multiple firmware revisions. Although I find the tone and behavior of the AFX II to be as good as any other modeler on the market, I would never call an AFX "easy to use" much beyond scrolling through presets. The AFX's UI design and implementation is in no way in the same class as its FX and modeling algorithms.


    Quote

    From what I can tell from the review sites, forums, and youtube, both the Axe FX II and the Kemper sound damn good and are very close to genuine tube amps in both sound and response. The Kemper is about $300.00 cheaper than the Axe FX II but the Axe FX II is more flexible and can be tweaked more.


    The Axe FX II appears to be much more complicated, the display seems limited and the interface seems clunky but most feel that the flexibility is second to none. Support for the Axe FX II is great and online community is strong.


    I agree, but will also point out that the Eleven Rack "sounds damned good", is "close to a genuine tube amp in sound and response", and is easy-to-use.


    In fact, of the three modelers in question, the Eleven Rack is the *only* one in which the modeled controls behave the same way as their physical counterparts. To me, that's a huge convenience; if I'm familiar with the sound and behavior of an amp, I know that I can dial in my "usual" settings for the amp on the Eleven Rack and be really close to what I'd get out of the physical amp.


    Quote

    To me this is a very difficult choice. In reality I probably will never use more than a dozen or so really good tones and both seem more than capable.


    What do you guys think that I am over-looking and why did you choose the Kemper over the Axe FX II at the time you purchased?


    Thanks for any feedback.


    I think you're overlooking a rationale for ditching gear that already meets your stated needs...


    Y'know, I understand *wanting* new gear. I just think it'd be helpful if you told us what you hope to accomplish by replacing (or supplementing) your Eleven Rack. Without that kind of specific guidance from you, the best response you can hope for is a popularity poll.

    Quote from TieDyedDevil

    I'll go one step further: I have heard *excellent* sounds for these styles and genres from all three modelers. I don't think you (or anyone else, for that matter) could listen to similar tones in a blind test and identify the modeler used.


    Oh yes, I surely can. Or rather, I can identify the characteristics that I've been searching for in modelers that only one of these is able to produce 8)

    I know that when I plugged into my 11R I never thought it was better than my live amps, nor good enough in earphones to feel like I was playing a real amp.


    The ULTRA did sound real and played great through my soundcard headphone.


    The KPA sounded as good as my amp. Before the KPA, I'd never have considered selling amps.


    Now for recorded sounds, you can tweak an 11R to sound real enough in a mix to make it hard to tell if it was a recorded amp or not.
    I have a friend who can play a G8 so well you'd not even think about the tone for the playing recorded.


    But getting a KPA recorded in a mix to sound unreal is quite hard.

    Do we not use these boxes to make music?
    Does the average person, listening to a mix of whatever genre music you play, care how or what you used to get your guitar sound/tone?
    NO!
    They are listening to the music.
    They accept the sound for what it is.
    Whether it sounds like a transistor radio or a symphony, they couldn't possibly know what you intended it to sound like.
    All the instruments combined together create the music, not your guitar tone.
    Come back to reality and make some good music.
    You can make great sounding music with almost any gear that's available today.

    Edited once, last by JN ().


    "I have been doing guitar based records for almost 40 years and I have worked with a ton of excellent guitar players (Zakk, Steve Stevens, George Lynch, Nuno, Vito Bratta, Wolf Hoffmann, Mick Mars, James Hetfield, Kane Roberts, Scottie and Snake from Skid Row, Chris Impelliteri, Dimebag, Ty Tabor etc.) and just as many great amps. The Kemper is a game changer and is hands down THE best piece of gear that walked though my studio door in the last 20 years. I am a stickler for guitar tone and I don't take guitar tone lightly. I've tried all the simulators more than once with a bunch of different players and I didn't like ANY of them (still don't). They don't do your right hand justice, so they make you play different. The Kemper is different, it is not a simulator... It is a profiler. To me that makes a big difference.


    I have about 50 different guitar amps, guitar pre-amps, and lots of cabinets, microphones and mic pres. They all sound great for something, all great in their own way. Rarely do I just use one single amp/cab/mic, most of the time I use combinations. I re-amped a DI guitar track through my Splawn together with a Bogner module, via two 4x12 cabs with 3 different speakers and 4 different mics via the Chandler TG-2 mic pre and the Trident A-range mic pre, mixed together to one track by the CraneSong Spider, and the sound was killer. Recorded the live amp track into Nuendo, I then profiled that exact setup, straight out of the Spider and re-amped the same DI track through the Kemper profile of that setup and punched it in and out of the original amp track: I could not hear a difference, I could not tell where the amp track ended and the Kemper track started and vice versa. That is close enough for me. If I can not tell a difference with the track in solo, nobody will be able to hear a difference when I'm done with the mix!


    The secret is in getting a great profile and there are a bunch of things to be paid attention to, like the actual return level, the level going into the Kemper, refining the profile the correct way etc. If done right, I cannot tell the profile from the original. If NOT done right, there will be a noticeable difference. Am I going to sell all my amps? Of course not. There are a million combinations that sound good, and are special to a particular track or song. Will I profile that combination used on that particular track? Yes, of course. Do I like other peoples profiles? Yes, some of them are very good and are very inspiring.


    I love being able to give players the exact sound they got on their album, so they can take it on the road with them. I think the Kemper KPA is an amazing piece of gear, and it does make my job easier. My 2 cents - now back to making music..."


    - Michael Wagner


    Sourced @ http://www.gearslutz.com/board/8569668-post58.html




    Quote from burningyen

    Hey MacFangus, you sent me a PM but I can't reply because you have PMs turned off. :) Please turn them on or write me through my B-Way Guitars website.

    I checked every setting, but I can't seem to locate any options for messaging?