Atomic CLR vs. Matrix Q 12a vs. Camper 112 CX

    Quote from Gitarrenschlumpf

    Please do a measurement and tell the world the truth. This "tech info" is copied from the speaker specs: http://celestion.com/product/120/tf1225cx/ . And as you can see in the plot, 40 Hz are -15 or -16 dB.

    All technical informations about the Q12a were taken from the manual available on the Matrix-webside. If you don't believe that these infos are right, please contact Matrix.


    Tilman: we used the right input, I'll send the cab back at the end of this week. Right now I'm recording guitars for a classical orchestra and I'm not able to leave the studio during the day. When the cab is back, maybe you should check if everything is alright with the slave, the CX had a perfect sound and was just much more quiet than the other ones.


    We are not connected to one of the companies and just 2 guitar-players who want the best FRFR for their KPAs. ;)


    Just my personal words: CLR and Q12a are very similar, sometimes we couldn't identify which cab was on, the CX is a great cab, too, either the slave of our test-cab is defective (transport?) or the input sensitivity is to low (for Ingolfs and my taste). For all the CLR-"fundamentalists": sorry for the bad news, but there are other great FRFR-cabs on the market, the CLR is not the "holy grail".


    When it comes to the sound (and that's more important than tech specs...) all 3 cabs were astonishingly close.

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

    Edited once, last by guenterhaas ().

    Thanks for the comparison.
    Have you also compared the speakers dB sensitivity? That can really matter much more for loudness and volume than high w power ratings. Just an example, double watt (100w vs 200w) is only about three dB more using the same speaker. A high sensitive speaker over 100 dB can make a low powered amp much louder than a high powered amp with a less sensitive below 100 db speaker.

    My 2 cents, for what it's worth.



    I have a Camper 2x12 which is said to be 2 x 180 watt power section. (I know this is a different beast to the CX).
    There are two inputs, left and right/both. I use the "both" from my monitor out controlling volume from the KPA master. I use this for stage monitor, FOH goes direct and is not linked to the master volume. I don't miss/want for a volume control on the unit itself.


    I agree with a previous poster in surprise the CX could not keep up with a loud drummer. I cannot have my output to the Camper above -14db, and usually have it lower. At -17db I have long overtaken the other guitarist using Marshall half-stack, and the drummer needs side fill to have a clue what he is hitting. That is not because he is afraid to hit his kit, he is as loud as any I have heard.


    I guess what I am saying, at least in the Camper 2x12, there is huge power reserve. I cannot imagine a scenario when I would be left wanting for volume. I suspect the test unit has a flaw, unless the company has employed a completely different power section.


    I have not compared the Camper to the other units tested in this thread. I am in Australia and don't know the Matrix is even here. The CLR is a two hour drive for me to try, and I haven't felt the need (even though the Camper is not a FRFR and is a little dark sounding. I simply adjusted the eq in the monitor out to compensate and it works for me).


    Regards to all.

    Quote from nico45

    I know this is a different beast to the CX

    Yes, that's right, we compared similar FRFR-cabs, yours is totally different from the CX (double-power, 70-10.000 Hz, 2x12", 25 kg ect.) and the other cabs.


    HappyKemper: this was just a little "plug in and play"-shootout, not a scientific investigation. ;)


    @Whippingpost: even if it's hard for you to believe: there is no better or worse between Q12a and CLR, Ingolf is using 2 CLRs and he liked the Q12a very much. The CLR is just a bit louder than the Matrix (the Q12a is surely loud enough....), but also bigger and heavier, they sound extremely similar, so we can keep ours. ;)

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

    Quote from guenterhaas

    @Whippingpost: even if it's hard for you to believe: there is no better or worse between Q12a and CLR, Ingolf is using 2 CLRs and he liked the Q12a very much. The CLR is just a bit louder than the Matrix (the Q12a is surely loud enough....), but also bigger and heavier, they sound extremely similar, so we can keep ours.

    Guenter, I think you miss understood my wording. I was simply agreeing with you that I was sure that there are other Cabs that are equal or even possibly better then the CLR.

    Quote from guenterhaas


    HappyKemper: this was just a little "plug in and play"-shootout, not a scientific investigation. ;)


    Yes I understand, but just a simple quick check of the listed speaker sensitivity dB spec on each cab speaker could rule out one reason to the low volume you experienced in the comparison. A speaker with say 120 dB sensitivity will sound a lot louder than a speaker with only 95db sensitivity, played through the same amp.

    Quote from HappyKemper

    Yes I understand, but just a simple quick check of the listed speaker sensitivity dB spec on each cab speaker could rule out one reason to the low volume you experienced in the comparison. A speaker with say 120 dB sensitivity will sound a lot louder than a speaker with only 95db sensitivity, played through the same amp.

    I will check it, but I think there is no speaker sensitivity listed on the cabs, I'll found something for the Q12a (in the manual):


    Input Level Sensitivity : 0.775v / 0 dBu

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

    Quote from guenterhaas

    Quoted from "HappyKemper"



    Yes I understand, but just a simple quick check of the listed speaker sensitivity dB spec on each cab speaker could rule out one reason to the low volume you experienced in the comparison. A speaker with say 120 dB sensitivity will sound a lot louder than a speaker with only 95db sensitivity, played through the same amp.
    I will check it, but I think there is no speaker sensitivity listed on the cabs, I'll found something for the Q12a (in the manual):


    Quote from guenterhaas

    Input Level Sensitivity : 0.775v / 0 dBu


    How about 97 dB at 1 watt and 1 meter distance? ;)

    Quote from Ingolf

    I really don't want to diss the CX. But with the Kemper output set to -15 dB (and if I set more output and slave through some FOH guys already start to complain how my signal is too hot for the desk) it was so ridiculously quiet it wasn't even funny.
    I have stated in my first post that this unit might have been defective as I cannot believe somobody playing at such low volume.
    In this case our impression can be easily rectified in the near future. I think it would be best if Tilman or you checked this unit and compared it against something 'comparable' and you'll see what we mean.
    Later on this test shootout can easily be revised.
    As for the linearity of the Q12a: I trust my ears. The Q12a sounded completely balanced through the whole range of guitar signal we fed into it.
    So did the CLR and so did the CX.


    Something to add:


    The Profilers power amp needs the Power Amp Boost turned up in the output section. This is described and reasoned in the printed manual.


    The main output should not be to hot for a professional mixing desk. Setting it to -15 dB results in consumer level only.


    Even if this is a problem, the output volumes can be individually controlled in the output section, while they stay linked to the master volume knob in a relative manner.

    We used two passive KPAs without built-in poweramps, only the poweramps of the 3 FRFR-cabs were used.

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de