New profiling (Better cab separation)

    Quote from Tobben

    Anyone who have tried replacing the cabinet in already merged profiles with another cab? I've had some weird issues with profiles
    that I saved with another cab than the originally merged cab. I just saved them as new profiles, no new cab merging. What happened
    here was that the sound changed in the saved profiles after browsing and loading other profiles, almost as if some cabinet character
    was "stuck" from previously loaded profiles. Seems to be ok today though....I deleted the affected profiles and saved new ones which
    are fine so far. I have no idea what caused this, but I thought I should mention it in case someone else experience the same issue. :)


    Ok, this one was a little tricky, but I think I've found a way to reproduce the issue fairly consistently...


    -Select the cabinet section and browse to a different cabinet (not always necessary but do it anyway)
    -Pan High Shift and Character to extremes so that you get a sound that you will recognize easily (this step is not part of the bug)
    -Simply Exit and go to the next rig
    -You should hear the same ugly cabinet sound in this rig as well. It's not 100% consistent I think, but I can reproduce it reliably here.


    The above example isn't that problematic as it's corrected by browsing back or forth once more, but it gets a little worse. Just loading
    a different cabinet and saving the rig with no other tweaks can cause problems later on. The main issue: Browsing/selection of cabs is
    sometimes one step off and in these cases you may end up saving a wrong cab. It sounds like you heard it when you saved the rig -
    but once you tweak a parameter in the cab section - then you get what's really saved and you realize it's not what you once heard...


    Sorry if this sounds confusing, but I think it's the only way I can explain it. The first example should be very easy to test and reproduce,
    while the other example is a bit more random it seems. I suspect the root of the issue is the same though...perhaps a buffer problem?

    Hi,


    I found a similar issue, a locked cab sometimes changes after scrolling to different rigs, and reported it as a support issue. The Kemper developers are looking into it. Have you reported this one?


    Brian

    Hi Brian :)


    No, I haven't reported it as I thought they were monitoring this thread.
    But you're right, it sure wouldn't hurt to report it directly to make sure they're aware of the issue. I'll do it right away. :)


    Tobben


    Please describe your problem more detailed.
    Do you use the Lock function for swapping cabinets?


    I can tell that locking cabinets (or amps) does not work properly using the new profile format.
    This is not a bug, but a consequence of the new format and the fact, that the separation between amp and cab with old profiles is not done the same way as with new profiles.


    This problem can be avoided by only using rigs of the new format. Every rig that is simply stored while the new format is activated, will appear in the new format.

    Quote from ckemper

    Please describe your problem more detailed.
    Do you use the Lock function for swapping cabinets?


    I can tell that locking cabinets (or amps) does not work properly using the new profile format.
    This is not a bug, but a consequence of the new format and the fact, that the separation between amp and cab with old profiles is not done the same way as with new profiles.


    This problem can be avoided by only using rigs of the new format. Every rig that is simply stored while the new format is activated, will appear in the new format.


    Thanks for the feedback! :)


    I've locked cabs sometimes, and sometimes not. It's kinda hard to backtrack every detail when you realize
    something is wrong after you've done a lot of other things in between. I basically had to start from scratch in
    order to reproduce some issues and get it detailed enough to be useful for you (hopefully). I've sent a report
    to Burkhard via email, but I'll post what I've found so far here as well:


    The cabinet listing is buggy when you browse the list of cabinets from other rigs.
    Let's say you have several variations of the same name/rig such as this:
    Mesa
    Mesa 1
    Mesa 2


    This is listed correctly in the cabinet presets, but in cabs from other rigs it's like this:
    Mesa 1
    Mesa 2
    Mesa


    No problem with different sorting - but you actually *get* and *hear* the cabinets as
    listed in the first example, meaning that if you select "Mesa 1" from another rig, then
    you actually hear and get "Mesa" instead.
    If you save this as a new rig, it will have the wrong cabinet, but you won't hear it
    until you enter the cab section and edit a parameter (High/Low Shift or Character).
    Once you touch one of those parameters, the real cabinet sound is revealed... :)
    The only thing I'm not sure of is if the actual cabinet is wrong or if it's just settings
    as I tested with variations of the same cabinet.


    Another issue that I can reproduce here:
    Saved rigs aren't showing in the cabinet list of "From Rigs" after saving a rig using
    "Store As". I have to store it again using "Replace" to get it to show in "From Rigs".
    I have Replaced all rigs to make sure it's correct here, but I got curious and took a
    peak at my previous backup. Please have a look at the attached image below.


    All rigs starting with a number are saved the last days after I got some 2.8 based
    profiles from another Kemper user. The file sizes may indicate that some of these
    rigs aren't saved correctly, but they all worked. I just wonder if files may be saved in
    the old format when using "Store As", and corrected to the new format when using
    Replace. All the rigs in my last backup are at least between 5700 and 5800 bytes
    after replacing all the rigs that first were saved using "Store As".


    Both these issues are tested and reproduced using v2.8 files without any lock. One
    possible exception is the smaller file sizes in some rigs as I can't remember if I had
    the lock function on or off at the time I saved those rigs.
    I will do another test tonight where I check what happens when using "Store As" in
    order to see if there's a connection with rigs/cabs not showing up in the "From Rigs"
    list and the smaller file sizes.


    Hope this helps, and please ask if something is unclear! :)
    Cheers,
    Tobben

    Quote from Tobben


    I will do another test tonight where I check what happens when using "Store As" in
    order to see if there's a connection with rigs/cabs not showing up in the "From Rigs"
    list and the smaller file sizes.


    Ok, I just tested this by storing files with both old and new format using "Store As".
    I saved several versions (A, B and C) of the same files and saved version C again,
    but this time using "Replace".


    All file sizes are between 5700 and 5800 bytes which should indicate that they are
    all saved in the new format I guess. However, only the replaced files (version C) can
    be found in the list of available cabinets from other rigs. Identical behaviour with both
    old and new rig versions.


    I think we can eliminate the file size "issue" as a problem. I tested various scenarios
    and found that it occurs when replacing cabs in old profiles while the cab section is
    locked. Probably what happened to me before I became aware of the other issues.


    One additional observation: browsing cabs from other rigs sounds correct to me when
    starting with an old rig, meaning that it only is listed wrong when replacing cabs in the
    new 2.8 rig versions...


    Basically, it seems that everything is fine except for the wrong cab selection in 2.8 rigs
    and the missing entries, both occuring in the "From Rigs" list of available cabinets.


    Cheers,
    Tobben

    Hmm, so - If I'm understanding this correctly, the new DI profiles will mean those like me who have no amps can use the DI's - mix and match with some cabs converted from the Redwirez Big Bundle and start adding that bit more 'personal' touch to our Kemper tones? And, it should sound like it would...I'd love to work on some up close 57 and off axis room mics to see what that can bring to the table...


    Is this reasoning correct? Or am I confused?

    You could always do that, although redwirez and other irs tend not to sound nywhere near as good as kemper cabs, but this just gives you better cab/amp separation with an existing amp and its speaker with the merge option. When you mix and match cabs after creating that it just goes back to the old behavior as far as i can tell.

    Quote from Axewave

    Replying to myself: This problem appears every time with Hughes & Kettner GrandMeister clean channel. I'm able to create a perfectly fine "studio profile", but DI profile always comes out as very distorted. I have tried it with two different DI boxes.


    Hi guys, just reading through this thread- I have the same USB issue- can't get any of my USB sticks to work with 2.8. I notice Rig Manager doesn't seem to work (recognize) with profiles made in 2.8....? Also have experienced the issue stated above- most of my amps, i can get a DI profile of, just fine, works great actually- but my Vox AC15HW, no dice. The DI profile comes out very distorted. That is the only amp I notice that does this (although some seem more accurate than others, namely the big iron 50w and 100w class A/B amps all profile fine, but the little 18 watt EL84 types are tougher with the Vox being totally unusable).

    As FW 2.8 is still an early beta and profiles made under 2.8 are structurally different than regular ones and don't work with older FWs, Kemper have decided to 'quarantine' 2.8 profiles from RM for the time being (as stated in the 2.8 announcement thread).


    Cheers,
    Sam