A Little bummed out.

    Guys, the last post in the thread was 8 months ago, so I'm guessing it's been sorted by now.


    Still, hopefully your efforts won't go to waste, especially yours, Sarge!


    Good advice on the A&H mixer. Always been a huge fan of their small-format boards, and it's obviously not just the EQ. Quiet, natural and transparent are words that come to mind, and built like the proverbial.

    As a long time forum reader and new Kemper owner, I agree with being a little bummed out if my goal was to completely replace all of my Amps/Preamps with the Kemper with no loss. I was defintely hopeful that would be the case but probably it wasn't realistic in my head. I haven't had a ton of time to play around yet but overall i'm quite let down. I've been reading the forum, saving up and listening to every clip that can be found for commercial profiles. I picked up a lot of profiles through the Black Friday/Christmas deals, so i have profiles from all of the big names (except Bert), but i'm having little joy. I need something that is flexable and works well through headphones as well as monitors and cabs. Late at night when playing with headphones, the sound is terrible. I can barely tell the difference between cheap software modelers and the Kemper. I currently have Sony MDR7506 as well as Audio Technica ATM50's, the Sony's have too little bass and the AT's are a bit boxy/boomy. When playing through a cab i also notice a severe lack of low end and punch compared to say my Egnater MTS setup (or my Peavey XXX). I have a Marshall 4x12 (75 watt) and a Bogner 1x12 (v30). I really, really wanted this to work but in less than a week i'm already researching alternative solutions, such as a Mesa Boogie Mark V 25 and the new Torpedo Captor direct box to connect and use their Wall of Sound or some other IR loader (i'm not crazy about their Cabclone output, at least in clips) for silent recording and still have the big sound when playing in the room. If money were no object the tone i'm searching for i'd say is the Steve Stevens Friedman, The Petrucci Mesa Boogie c+ and the Fuchs Blackjack clean tone (i already have a vintage fender princeton but it needs some work). Since this is all very expensive i was hoping to get it all in the Kemper. Honestly after switching through rigs looking for a sound everything starts to sound very similar.


    While the sound is better after i record and listen in the car say, but it does not sound like the clips i hear of the same profiles from the commercial vendors. I'm mostly using an Ernie Ball Silhouette Special (with the stock Humbucker and Lindy Fralin single coils) and an Ernie Ball Axis. I haven't been playing much in many years and I was really hoping this would spring board me back in to it with a ton of enthusiasm, but instead it's sort of draining it.


    As far as what brought me to the Kemper, I like a lot of the clean tones (though even in clips it's really hard to find that sound i'm looking for, i'd say the closest was Andy's Lazy J collection..which i own), Britt's /13, Tonehawk's demo. For distorted, Jay Wud's demos of the Rectifier and Orange from Reampzone, Top Jimi's brown sound collection, Sinmix's Be100, MixBerlins 5150/Rectifier and Guido's lead tones. I have a lot of those, but not all, i stopped purchasing anything until i sort out my issues. In fact I like the free Tim Owens Be100 and someone else's CCV as much as any of the commercial distorted tones..but don't satisfy at least while playing.


    Before i give up, i want to try to Profile some of my setup and see how it compares but i don't currently have a direct box to try and direct profiles. Studio profiles are a bit trickier since I have 2 small kids and no sound proof rooms.

    It took me a little bit to love my Kemper.


    One thing that I found to be insurmountable was that expecting something that was tuned for FRFR or headphones would never sound good through a guitar cab and vice versa. I'm sure there's a way but I couldn't be bothered to find out what.


    My favourite distortion tones come from RigManager.


    Further, if I flick between profiles, I quickly tire and find the differences jarring.

    Very interesting thread. Lots of great opinions and information.


    So just to get this straight....OPs solution was to run a direct profile of an amp through tubes and then a cab? Wouldn't that sound different to the actual amp with all that coloring? So he's basically using the Kemper as a pre-amp at that stage?

    Bear in mind, your guitar is the biggest influence on your sound. TAF, TopJimi and Tonehawk all demo their profiles using "classic" guitars; your Teles, Strats and Les Pauls (though Andy has often used Ally Lee @millstudios for his demos, and he's known to use fairly rare gold foil pickups in his guitars). I've found Ernie Ball guitars to have a more modern sound to them, almost more 'hifi'. In the beginning, I was also discouraged by my guitars not sounding like the clips online, until I dusted off my old Tele and Les Paul and repurchased a Strat. That reassured me that the Kemper is very capable of hitting those tones and demos with my own gear. Then I went about finding and tweaking profiles for my other guitars. Some profiles that I deemed as throwaway suddenly became outstanding and vice versa with my other guitars. Also, try playing around with the Definition control in the Amp section. That can also transform a profile that was made for a certain guitar into something very usable for another.

    Just to say @sam Brox ...for the clip demos I do for TAF I use a Nashville Tele or a 'Vintage' Lemon Drop ...the gold foil lovliness comes into play when I'm doing full blown tracks ..
    But I echo you opinions mate ...the guitar ..and of course the player make a HUGE difference I'm pretty sure if I plugged into SRV or EVH rig with their guitars I wouldn't sound ANYTHING like them ...

    Quote from chrismilne

    so i have profiles from all of the big names (except Bert), but i'm having little joy. I need something that is flexable and works well through headphones as well as monitors and cabs. Late at night when playing with headphones, the sound is terrible.

    Ouch, that hurts ?( Only thing I can say is that I tested my profiles in all possible circumstances untill I was completely satisfied about the sound so that's including the circumstances you mention. I also tested with a great variety of guitars and off coarse it's what Sam @sambrox says, the kind of guitar makes a difference but I can use a strat, tele or LP (not too hot) on the same profile without any problem...

    Quote from breu

    Ouch, that hurts ?( Only thing I can say is that I tested my profiles in all possible circumstances untill I was completely satisfied about the sound so that's including the circumstances you mention. I also tested with a great variety of guitars and off coarse it's what Sam @sambrox says, the kind of guitar makes difference but I can use a strat, tele or LP (not too hot) on the same profile without any problem...

    This is true. I've found that Bert's profiles are among those few that just work, regardless of what guitar you plug in. For me, I look at it like this : if I want a sound to just work, I'll use one of Bert's profiles. He has great experience at turning up at sessions and having to quickly get a tone that'll work without having heard the music previously, using whatever guitars he has to hand. Great clean tones for live, too. For more specific tones and for when I have the luxury of time, especially for recording, I'll scroll through Andy's profiles (he's great at getting a more vintage, characterful vibe). Great for adding bags of colour to a part and for layering overdubs (can't wait to get my teeth into his latest pack 11). If I'm playing live and need to have confidence that it'll sound great out front when I don't have confidence in the live engineer/monitoring system/venue acoustics, MBritt's my man.

    Just on headphones, I use Sennheiser HD280 Pro and HD 380 Pros. These are fully enclosed and have plenty of bass, I use digital out of the KPA into RME interfaces and use the phones out from there. The sound I get from most pro packs - from clean to hi-gain with humbuckers and single coils is generally speaking, superb. The KPA has more than met my expectations.

    @chrismilne


    Chris,


    Have you read the Kemper Reference Manual, cover to cover? Be honest. The KPA is a complex and powerful device, and there are so many ways to shape your tone. I am not saying that this is your situation, but I am always surprised when I learn of someone who spends upwards of $3,000 on a powerful digital device but refuses to open the manual and actually learn about their device.


    Also, I presume you are disabling the KPA's Cabinet Module (Output Section ---> Monitor Cab Off) when you are playing your KPA through one of your traditional guitar cabinets, yes? While this is certainly a viable option, and can yield some fantastic tones, it absolutely limits the tonal variety that is possible with the Kemper. Your guitar cabinet is contributing approx. 75% of the over-all tone...and is the primary reason why you noticed the following:


    Quote

    Honestly after switching through rigs looking for a sound everything starts to sound very similar.


    If you really want to open up the power of your Kemper, and accurately discern the sonic variations of different amp/cab profiles, you will want to try your Kemper through a good FRFR monitor. That is the only way you will hear the dramatic contribution the mic'd reference cabinets make to the original profiles.


    Cheers,
    John

    Quote from breu

    Ouch, that hurts ?( Only thing I can say is that I tested my profiles in all possible circumstances untill I was completely satisfied about the sound so that's including the circumstances you mention. I also tested with a great variety of guitars and off coarse it's what Sam @sambrox says, the kind of guitar makes a difference but I can use a strat, tele or LP (not too hot) on the same profile without any problem...

    Quote from breu

    Ouch, that hurts ?( Only thing I can say is that I tested my profiles in all possible circumstances untill I was completely satisfied about the sound so that's including the circumstances you mention. I also tested with a great variety of guitars and off coarse it's what Sam @sambrox says, the kind of guitar makes a difference but I can use a strat, tele or LP (not too hot) on the same profile without any problem...

    Sorry about that @breu I think you misread that. What I meant was I've purchased from most of the big name commercial profiles but i haven't bought yours yet because i only bought during the Black Friday and Christmas Sales and you didn't have any :) I actually tried some of your free pack and agree that they would be much easier to slide in to a mix because they do not have the boominess that many profiles have when recording without a real cab.


    I did notice that with my Strat a lot of profiles did sound better, but i don't normally play heavy tones with a Single coil bridge pickup, so it would be unusal to do that. I think 95% of my issues are back to Amp in the room sound and not having a very good environment (room/monitors etc). Though one of the frustrating things is i can listen online clips of other people with the Kemper and it does not have the same sound as when i'm sitting playing in that same environment (i don't mean quality of playing which i'm sure is much better on their end) i mean it's boxy/boomy and/or hollow.

    Thanks for the info. While I have not read the monitor cover to cover, i did scan for a few items (mostly where to find things). I have however, watched every tutorial i can find from Kemper and users (some multiple times) and have been reading the forum for at least 6 months or more. I didn't spend nearly as much as you're suggesting but it is still a very large investment if i'm not getting significantly better tones than an ipad with Bias and Amplitube (not exactly saying that, i do think it's a significant improvement). I guess i just have to spend more time with the Kemper and figure out for myself if the money is better spent on a Kemper or 1-2 Smaller Heads (Mark 5:25, Orange, 5150 and/or pedals and a direct box and in the box IR's when i need to record it).


    I'm defintely enthusiastic when i see videos like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ96hClp9JM and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiBPG3dWcW8


    For me, it's still very hard to get a good tone on headphones and lower level monitoring through studio monitors (compared to listening to similar clips via the same setup which i think is a bit odd). I have not tried an FRFR monitor, i would like to try one at some point. I like the sound of my Bogner cabinet but i hear you on the amp/cab interaction and resulting tone (to answer the other question i did turn off the cab on the kemper when using my real cabinets). I have not played around at all with the effects other than enable/disable what has come with the profiles). I do have a Strymon Mobius, Strymon Flint, and a TC Triple Delay so i'm not really concerned whether i like those a lot or not. In the videos i've seen, except for the Reverb they all seem quite good though.


    In the end i should probably just learn to play better and I would probably be happier :)

    I find that many guitar players are looking for "that" sound, the holy grail. They try tube amps, effects, guitars and go around in circles. The problem is...that sound in your head needs to come from you!
    I sound the same no matter what amp, guitar I use. In the end it all comes down to me. So, I have embraced that and I don't need to sound like (insert famous guitar players name). I need to find something that works for me.
    Funny what getting older does for you, lol.

    I just stumbled on this thread and have only read the recent entries. But it again raises a question in my mind so wanted to share:


    Are we 100% certain that KPA's might not differ in tone from one to the next? Sort of how the same type of tube amps can sound different one to the next, where on occasion they can sound REALLY different? Granted the KPA is a "digital" device but there are still plenty of analog components within. Anyway, it just leaves me wondering (still) if some of the new customers who immediately notice something seems "off" or "missing" with their KPA might actually be experiencing a tone-tolerance phenomenon where their particular KPA is an outlier?


    Just a thought, not sure how we'd ever get an answer to the question though....


    Sonic


    I think that's highly unlikely. It's a digital device, where the processing is same across devices.

    Quote from nightlight

    I think that's highly unlikely. It's a digital device, where the processing is same across devices.

    The algorithms may be the same, but there is input and output circuitry, AD/DA circuitry, and even circuitry inside the chips themselves, that involve analog components. And that's just the obvious, there could be other things as well going on. I agree entirely the logical, intuitive position would be to assume the KPA's sound identical from one to the next. But I still think it is a question worth asking and us keeping in mind as a possibility. We just simply don't know.

    Quote from SonicExporer

    The algorithms may be the same, but there is input and output circuitry, AD/DA circuitry, and even circuitry inside the chips themselves, that involve analog components. And that's just the obvious, there could be other things as well going on. I agree entirely the logical, intuitive position would be to assume the KPA's sound identical from one to the next. But I still think it is a question worth asking and us keeping in mind as a possibility. We just simply don't know.


    I think that's as laughable as saying that one Marshall MG50DX sounds different from another. Kempers sounding different from the other? For what reason? I think the mods can probably clue you in better on that, I'm not very capable of clearing this up for you if you actually think that one refrigerator is better than the other.

    Quote from nightlight

    I think that's highly unlikely. It's a digital device, where the processing is same across devices.

    I tend to think not. The reason is because I went through the same growing pains with my Kemper, thinking wtf. It just turned out to be total ignorance on my part. After some time with the unit I have been able to coax out the best tones of my life personally. One piece of advice I will offer though that made a difference for me is to not go wild with the EQ. For me personally a fraction of a fraction of a turn on any of those knobs makes a big difference. The difference between THE tone and a tone you don't like can be very subtle in my opinion.

    Quote from Elido Jimenez

    One piece of advice I will offer though that made a difference for me is to not go wild with the EQ. For me personally a fraction of a fraction of a turn on any of those knobs makes a big difference. The difference between THE tone and a tone you don't like can be very subtle in my opinion.

    100% agree, have found the same thing.


    I am still really struggling though to coax any kind of convincing classic high-gain Marshall sound out of the KPA. Just can't get that Marshall grind/snarl. Can be fooled sometimes into thinking it is close but the minute you compare it against real amp tracks the KPA just doesn't get there for me, yet. Something going on in the midrange and missing some harmonic sweetness in the way top end. I just keep working at it for now.