Reverb setting to match a real close mic'd amp

    Lately I 'm noticing that when I mic a real amp, even with just one close mic, there is a natural sense of "reality", I guess it's due to the real space the amp is phisically in, that is missing with the Kemper if all effects are disengaged.
    It's no Kemper fault and it's quite an obvious thing, but I was wondering what's the best way to obtain the same alive sound with the Kemper.


    I'd still record mainly dry and add effects later, but I'm looking for that perception comparable to a real amp recorded in a good room.


    Maybe the Headphones Space parameter, or any other subtle reverb setting to leave always on?


    Thanks!

    The space parameter is designed to create the subtle ambience of an amp in the room. You can use it also on the main outs if you deactivate the heaphone option or use the algorithm in as an effect in the mod or x slot.

    The room portion is already part of the profile. You rarely read reports where people profile their close mice'd amps and say everything sounded equal but rhe room was missing.

    Christoph, I routinely hear people talking about the lack of "air" with the Kemper on sites such as Gearslutz and TGP. I've also said as much myself right from the beginning.


    If you are aiming for excellence in guitar tone emulation - which obviously you are either as the creator or user of the KPA, then the subtle natural room reverberations and "air" should be considered as a significant factor, especially as the other parts of the amp emulation equation seem to have been solved at this point.


    It's going to be in this area that you get the most bang for buck in terms of future development and advancement of "authenticity", or even just features for marketing.

    There's a point I am apparently missing in this discussion: whatever amp and cab you use in a room, the room is still there... how can it be missing?
    Pretty sure I am missing something :/

    Quote from viabcroce

    ">

    There's a point I am apparently missing in this discussion: whatever amp and cab you use in a room, the room is still there... how can it be missing?
    Pretty sure I am missing something :/


    Profiling doesn't take an impulse response (or some equivalent) to capture the small amounts of reverb in the room, so some people feel like the resulting recorded tone is too dry - not enough "oomph" after a chug for example.

    The Kemper just gets the frequency response of the combined cab, mic, pre and room. "Air" is the sound of the room (with the amp in it of course) including all the attributes of the room (think of it like a giant sound board), so reverb/reflections, resonance and resonant harmonics, sympathetic sounds, background noise. Both frequency effects and time based effects.


    When you listen to a recording of a real guitar amp that hasn't been either sliced to heck or has a heavy handed noise gate on it then you will hear a surprising amount of room sound, even on close mic'd amps. One of the tells of digital amps is the lack of this natural fluffy reverb and sympathetic sound. It's too perfect, like a bass guitar with no wolf notes, or digital drum replacement. Great for pop, shit for rock. Unfortunatelay I've not yet heard a good digital verb that can accurately capture the whole room ambience and resonance, some IR's get close, but most just sound like studio verbs somehow when you slap em on a digital guitar track.

    I just use the reverb and it works for me.


    One thing that helps is dialing in a healthy amount of pre-delay (pre-reverb? I forget what the parameter is called).
    I can make my Kemper sound like it's in a small room very easily if there's a slight pause between the note and the onset of the reverb.


    Then again, I like reverb drenched 60's guitar sounds. Just drown it in reverb and I'm in heaven. Cavernous.

    Quote from Per

    The Kemper just gets the frequency response of the combined cab, mic, pre and room. "Air" is the sound of the room (with the amp in it of course) including all the attributes of the room (think of it like a giant sound board), so reverb/reflections, resonance and resonant harmonics, sympathetic sounds, background noise. Both frequency effects and time based effects.


    When you listen to a recording of a real guitar amp that hasn't been either sliced to heck or has a heavy handed noise gate on it then you will hear a surprising amount of room sound, even on close mic'd amps. One of the tells of digital amps is the lack of this natural fluffy reverb and sympathetic sound. It's too perfect, like a bass guitar with no wolf notes, or digital drum replacement. Great for pop, shit for rock. Unfortunatelay I've not yet heard a good digital verb that can accurately capture the whole room ambience and resonance, some IR's get close, but most just sound like studio verbs somehow when you slap em on a digital guitar track.


    I think a big weakness here is: most profiles are close mic'ed. There is nothing wrong with this, but that is like shining a laser on a painting in the dark: you only get a certain amount of the image at any one time. Whereas reverberations come from the room being excited by the whole... Err, painting... If you will... So when you add reverb to a close-miced cab AFTER the fact, you're not getting a real room response.

    So, to get back with OP's reason for posting, every room will have a unique response.
    Try either the 'hall', 'room' or 'small room' reverb options, crank the mix way up, play with it until you get the right room, then turn the mix way down between 5% and 15%.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    I am not sure I'd consider this a weakness, it was never meant to capture the room's reverberation but only the rig's transfer function. I'd use an IR of the room, if I needed a specific "room".

    Quote from viabcroce

    I am not sure I'd consider this a weakness, it was never meant to capture the room's reverberation but only the rig's transfer function. I'd use an IR of the room, if I needed a specific "room".


    That is actually the weakness I'm talking about, though :) You have a "filtered" signal (filtered by mic and mic placement) that you then apply an IR to. This might or might not be a problem for your needs, of course.

    The mic filter could be minimized tho, with a conscious profiling :)


    I see two distinct topics here, one being the above and another being the lack of ability in catching "the room".
    If you think of it they are independent from each other, and when the former is addressed applying an ambience convolution is not an issue any longer.

    To be honest, I've never expected that it captured the room ambience, because when I first read about the way it works I realized that profilation has to do with the rig's transfer function only. Did you expect otherwise?
    Also, I'd stress that while it's easy to add an IR to a rig's recording, it's much harder to add a... profile to a room if you don't use a Profiler.
    Last but not least, I'd note that not all the rooms sound good. For those who don't have the possibility to profile in a great-sounding room, or have a room which sounds bad, it's IMO a good option that the ambience is not included :)