Please help me! (surprise... same issue as always... sounding digital and thin and whatever)

Quote from Cederick

Ok, if you're not up to it I guess I can just forget about it, I dont think people wanna waste any time on this...

I've even mailed two people I know who have Kemper and they haven't done anything either, so complete unknowns will probably not chime in to help either...

You calling me a "complete unknown"? That harsh man... Harsh...!

I'll help you out when I can. If you're quick, I might even get it done tonight (local time).

Just one request: Please do it like this:

- Use a profile that is completely stock (untweaked by you), and publicly available (rig exchange). Actually, make sure you load it directly from rig manager, if you can.
- And, of course, tell me which profile it is. Preferably, give me a search term in rig exchange that ONLY shows this profile (don't want to accidentally use another!).
- Use spdif to record
- MAKE SURE YOU TELL ME what your clean sens is set at! (and please double check this)
- use spdif, and set the output in the kemper to "Git/stack"
- record both the DI and the "amped" signal
- record at 44.1 kHz and 24 bits
- Please do the recording in a completely new session in your DAW, and make sure all faders are at unity (i.e. zero - no boost or attenuation).
- dropbox the two recorded tracks or get them to me in some other way

Quote from Michael_dk

- Use a profile that is completely stock (untweaked by you), and publicly available (rig exchange). Actually, make sure you load it directly from rig manager, if you can.

My guess is so you make sure the profile settings are 100% unchanged.

At the obvious risk of repeating myself yet again, it's because it'd be a known, unadulterated quantity, Cederick.

Quote from Cederick

I didn't think people used their stock profiles?

That's not the point; I suggested this for the reason given above.

Quote from Cederick

I mean, I love TAF Van \m/ Halen and it's my most played, but I've still tweaked it so it's not the same as factory preset anymore...

See? My point exactly. The only way to be sure both ends of the comparison used untweaked Profiles is to use (freshly-downloaded if need be or restored-from-firmware) an agreed-upon Factory one.

Quote from Cederick

But if somebody wants to reamp with factory stock TAF Van \m/ Halen, I can download it as well and reamp it too...

That's the idea, brother... but don't tweak it in any way! Hands off! LOL

Quote from Cederick

Ok, if you're not up to it I guess I can just forget about it, I dont think people wanna waste any time on this...

I've even mailed two people I know who have Kemper and they haven't done anything either, so complete unknowns will probably not chime in to help either...

Crumpets, you really were / are having a bad day, you poor chap.

In case you haven't noticed, the forum is full of people who're more than willing to "waste" their time helping others here; it's what we do. Why would your issue be excepted from this loving attention?

Quote from Michael_dk

- Use a profile that is completely stock (untweaked by you), and publicly available (rig exchange). Actually, make sure you load it directly from rig manager, if you can.
- And, of course, tell me which profile it is. Preferably, give me a search term in rig exchange that ONLY shows this profile (don't want to accidentally use another!).

Hmm... I reckon I might've heard this whacky advice somewhere before, Michael, but I can't quite put my finger on where...

I wonder if you have something similar to my problem. I just started another thread, and I put there a link to my crappy sounding samples... have a listen and see if we might be having similar issues:

Please listen... is this the way Kemper should sound?? Problem with sound

Quote from Cederick

So, this is my current sound I've reamped with, does this even sound good? I've reamped and tweaked so much I'm not sure anymore, even tho I do kinda like it...

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To me this does not only sound good, it sounds very good. Guitars sit in the mix like they should IMO.

To my ears, that sounds really rather good! There's a certain middly/boxy quality to it but I mean that in a good way. I certainly don't hear it and think 'That's nice but it sounds very digital and harsh!'.

I just relistened to it on headphones. It sounds excellent.

Quote from Cederick

I still dont understand why one cannot use the profile I've uploaded? What changes happens to it when uploading, and downloading?

This way, both you and the other "participants" know for sure that it's not been altered in any way.

It's just a scientific methodology, I guess.

Quote from Cederick

But if it's the same profile, why does it matter?

1. I upload a profile
2. Somebody downloads and installs the same profile
3. Shoot? It is the exact same profile, why does it matter I have tweaked it?

You're not convincing me, sorry

Hi Cederic, I had nearly the same issue than you in former times.
I thought the the most rigs are sounding harsh and fizzy and also very bright.
At least i got the points what i have done wrong:
- I tweaked too much at bedroom level
- I scooped the mids too much
- I used the wrong cabs
- I wasted too many time with crappy rigs and tried to tweak them

My solution was:
- I followed sinmix hint and i dont added a second eq
- I dont use pure cab, because most of the commercial profiles are done without using pure cab when creating and the studio guys who created them have profiled them very loud and they all created them with the thought to find the sweet point, so why do i get the idea to change the created sound with purecab, space or different eq?
- I found my f.e. 5 cabs that i prefer
- i dont waste my time anymore with rig which sound not good right out of the box
- when i tweak i do it at a very loud level and i always use backing tracks when tweaking, so i can hear directly if a sound fits in the mix
- i dont use cabs when i play clean profiles
- I use more mids , i am a hughe fan of john petrucci and i always have in mind that he scooped his sound dramaticly, but when you hear and see him live, his sound is warm and he uses mid ( surprise, surprise)

I recorded many different samples of commercial rigs
and uploaded them on soundcloud ( search for eltzejupp if you like).
I didnt delete a file there so for me you can hear my evolution of sound over the time.
There is a early tune from steve vais for the love of god and i was really unhappy with this thin and fizzy sound ( imho). But when i go to my latest test tunes i am really happy with the sounds. Imho they are much warmer and they have more punch.

So at this time i must say that i didnt found the holy grail, but i have a lot more fun
because i can find out good sounds in minutes without reamping too much and wasting time.
I can tell you, it took me nearly 1,5 years to come to this point and i have had times in between
where i thought to use a big hammer and destroy my kpa.

But i think i am a patient guy and one of the biggest thing that helped me out are the guys here in this forum.
I followed their hints and my tone gets better and better for me and i have to thank theses helpful and patient guys again ( you know who you are )

Finally i am fine with my great little green monsterbox, except the delays, and reverbs i am missing
Hope you get this point too.
I will check out your tweaked rig later and i will record a small tune with it. Is the rig behind your upload in your first post?

BTW: Your last soundsample sounds really good to me.

Cheers
Frank

Quote from Eltzejupp

Hi Cederic, I had nearly the same issue than you in former times.
I thought the the most rigs are sounding harsh and fizzy and also very bright.
At least i got the points what i have done wrong:
- I tweaked too much at bedroom level
- I scooped the mids too much
- I used the wrong cabs
- I wasted too many time with crappy rigs and tried to tweak them

My solution was:
- I followed sinmix hint and i dont added a second eq
- I dont use pure cab, because most of the commercial profiles are done without using pure cab when creating and the studio guys who created them have profiled them very loud and they all created them with the thought to find the sweet point, so why do i get the idea to change the created sound with purecab, space or different eq?
- I found my f.e. 5 cabs that i prefer
- i dont waste my time anymore with rig which sound not good right out of the box
- when i tweak i do it at a very loud level and i always use backing tracks when tweaking, so i can hear directly if a sound fits in the mix
- i dont use cabs when i play clean profiles
- I use more mids , i am a hughe fan of john petrucci and i always have in mind that he scooped his sound dramaticly, but when you hear and see him live, his sound is warm and he uses mid ( surprise, surprise)

I recorded many different samples of commercial rigs
and uploaded them on soundcloud ( search for eltzejupp if you like).
I didnt delete a file there so for me you can hear my evolution of sound over the time.
There is a early tune from steve vais for the love of god and i was really unhappy with this thin and fizzy sound ( imho). But when i go to my latest test tune i am really happy with the sounds. Imho they are much warmer and they have more punch.

So at this time i must say that i didnt found the holy grail, but i have a lot more fun
because i can find out good sounds in minutes without reamping too much and wasting time.
I can tell you, it took me nearly 1,5 years to come to this point and i have had times in between
where i thought to use a big hammer and destroy my kpa.

But i think i am a patiend guy and one of the biggest thing that helped me out are the guys here in this forum.
I foolowed their hints and my tone gets better and better for me and i have to thank theses helpful and patiend guys again ( you know who you are )

Finally i am fine with my great little green monsterbox, except the delays, and reverbs i am missing
Hope you get this point too.
I will check out your tweaked rig later and i will record a small tune with it. Is the rig behind your upload in your first post?

BTW: Your last soundsample sounds really good to me.

Cheers
Frank

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Quote from Cederick

Eltzejupp, thanks for the reply!

Yeah, I've been constantly switching between "i freaking LOVE the Kemper!" and "bash it to hell!!!!" over and over.

I have no idea why. Sure, I lean towards "like it" more then "do not like it", otherwise I would have never bought it.

Right now, one of my "partial solutions" to my issue, was to dial down the TUBE SHAPE TO 0.0 because that eliminated annoying noises when palm muting. There's a thread about it here

Tube Shape at 0.0 best for distorted metal profiles??

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Maybe it works for you, i never tried it.
I dont record with spidf because my interface ( steinberg ur 242)
didnt have spdif.
I use cubase with it and it was also a journey to get good reluts out of it.
So i have a cup of coffee and i try your tweaked rig with my interface. I'll let you know what happens.
Cheers
Frank

Quote from Cederick

But if it's the same profile, why does it matter?

1. I upload a profile
2. Somebody downloads and installs the same profile
3. Shoot? It is the exact same profile, why does it matter I have tweaked it?

You're not convincing me, sorry

Perhaps you missed the italicised words in the phrase "know for sure"?
Maybe you missed the word, "scientific"?

It's just, as I suggested, good scientific practice to do it this way. That hammer I talked about - eliminating all variables possible in order to minimise human error as a risk factor or cause - is part of the scientific method. If you're not down with it, so be it. It's only about thoroughness and integrity of comparative testing. You see this sort of thing in double-blind tests, which are comparative anyway, and not unlike what you aimed for, all the time. It's standard practice.

If you're not convinced, that's fine by me, bud; after 2 pages I know when to quit. If there are inexplicable differences and you can't seem to track the source down, you could always rerun the test whilst observing the scientific method more strictly as a last resort.

Fingers crossed for you; your Kemper should sound fantastic all the time, and none of us wants to hear that shitty, harsh garbage you've had to put up with, Cederick.

Quote from Cederick

That is awesome! Thanks a lot. Should be interesting to see how it sounds, even tho it's not SPDIF.

So test is done.
First part is your tweak.
Second is my tweak. I changed:
-Your setted dirstortion sense from -3 to zero
-i shutted down your up to +5 setted booster in front of the amp section (wich makes a lot of noise because +5 is a very high level)
-after deleting the booster i go up with the gain level to the distorted sound that you hear
-i cut of your pick setting in the amp section snd setted the definition
-i set the definition from 8 to 6,4 and the tube shape back to 3,3
-added some noise gate with the wheel noise gate and setted my 2:1 noisegate in stomp A, level 3,1
thats it.
The third part of the tune is ma "retweak" with an added delay (nothing more) to get this lead sound. I played two very long notes where you can hear that on this gain level (6,5) there is no crappy noise behind it.

Maybe it depends on my ears, but imho this sound is a little bit smoother??? than yours. I dont know. Comments are welcome.
I like the lead sound on this base.
What do you think?

cheers
Frank