Not possible with the KPA?

    Quote from SonicExporer

    Doesn't surprise me, messing with the controls on the KPA isn't going to get you power amp saturation unless it was there to begin with. Still, I'll try to load your profile over the weekend and give a listen. Thanks for taking a stab at it.
    But to clarify, I wasn't referring to the solo, but rather to rhythms. Listen to Mr. Scary at 2:35 where the break is and compare to the KPA replication track. That's power section saturation at work. I haven't heard anything like that out the KPA yet. The reason I pointed out that section is that only the guitar is playing there and it does a nice ringing chord as well, so it might be easier for some people to hear what I'm referring to. But the power section saturation is all over the entire duration of the track, not isolated to that one section.


    Sonic

    Ahhhh, then I'll take another look at it, then!

    Ok guys, I am about ready to throw in the towel. After weeks of mixing and matching amps & cabs, trying all kinds of rigs I cannot reach the 80's classic metal tones I'm after with the KPA. Not even with endless KPA tweaking, or post tweaking.


    After all the time & effort I've put in I'm just not about to go open another Pandora's Box by draggin rigs out of storage and taking up days (probably more like weeks) of valuable studio time only to potentially find out the KPA can't profile the tones for whatever reason.


    I've got a few more things I plan to try this week but the outlook at this point doesn't look good frankly. :/


    In the mean time, again, if anybody has any clips or rigs or advice that can show the KPA doing the tones I'm after please let me know.


    Sonic

    Quote from ColdFrixion

    I don't understand why you haven't profiled any of your amps yet.

    I touched upon that. Way too much time, effort and cost for something, after 5 years, the KPA & existing profiles should already be able to do without me having to do it. As I said, I have yet to hear even ONE profile or clip that does the kinds of tone I'm after. If I eventually hear a few clips then maybe I'll reconsider. As it stands now, I have heard absolutely zero evidence the KPA can do the types of classic 80's metal tones I'm looking for. That was the whole premise in reaching out in this thread. Somebody please demonstrate this can be done using the KPA and share how..... :/


    Sonic

    Not worth hanging onto the KPA for the universe of other tones on offer, Sonic?


    I mean, barring a few exceptions, you'd still have the rest of the guitar-tone universe at your fingertips in a convenient package. Surely at some point you're gonna want to record, either for yourself or someone else, some funk, rock, metal, jazz, latin, pop, fusion, country... something other than the classic '80s stuff you're referring to?


    Personally I wouldn't dream of throwing the baby out with the bathwater in this way; there's just too damned much on offer, not even taking into account the countless hours that'd be saved by not having to mic cabs. Then there's the convenience it brings to gigging or jamming if you ever chose to have that fun again one day.


    Just sayin', as they say, brother. All may not be lost - just the classic '80's tones you're after, and even then, I'm not 100% convinced you won't be able to get close enough to them for all intents and purposes... at some point. Close enough for you to be satisfied.

    @Monkey_Man , I understand what you are saying but the whole reason I got the KPA was specifically to direct record and have access to a variety of tones of the genre I'm focused at serving.


    I've about given up in as far as me figuring this out by msyelf at this point. But am at least hoping somebody else on the forum can demonstrate the KPA is able to reach these tones. So at least I can validate whether or not it is even possible. Surely I can't be the only one who is, or has been, after these kinds of tones....


    Sonic

    Quote from Awesome_Elvis

    How do you know when your guitar tone is perfect? :whistling:

    Hey man, what a question.


    I think GAS (guitar acquisition syndrome) and tone-chasing have the same origins. It's kinda like procrastination or something. Instead of being happy about something we're chasing something that we'll never reach. Can tone ever be perfect?


    So being serious for a second I think perfect tone is reached when it supports your musical idea and when it aspires you to play and project a certain feeling.


    We all hearing things in different ways, eh? Some days you fire up your tube amp and it sounds amazing. The next day you play it and you wonder where the tone went. Or you play and guitar and set your rig up perfectly and give the guitar to a friend to play and it sounds completely different. Or you download a rig profile and it sounds different than the sample recording. All examples of subjective impressions of guitar tone.


    What helped me cure my 25 year obsession with Eddie's tone was to learn the songs and not focus on the tone so much. Nowadays I just learn new riffs or techniques.


    That and TopJimi's Brown Pack is it for me. I'm over and done.

    To repeat myself for the billionth time I think the best test for the KPA is doing the profiling for oneself.


    This not being being possible I don't think there is much chance Sonic finds profiles to fit the tones he is after.


    I do profiles with both preamp and power amp distortion. After a certain point the KPA gets confused and chances are the profiles will be off by a lot. That's why I tend to go softer on the preamp. But defo have profiles with power amp distortion -- and I don't think they will do the tones Sonic is after either.


    These tones seem to have a lot of preamp gain. Assuming the power stage is also hit hard I don't think the KPA would be very successful profiling these. But the DIO track tones are also quite particular about EQ and all -- imho someone would have to tone match the tones, then try to profile these to get close (if even then it works)


    Congestion will always be there, in my experience, more or less.. but that is mostly another issue * I would think *

    Quote from SonicExporer

    I touched upon that. Way too much time, effort and cost for something, after 5 years, the KPA & existing profiles should already be able to do without me having to do it. As I said, I have yet to hear even ONE profile or clip that does the kinds of tone I'm after. If I eventually hear a few clips then maybe I'll reconsider. As it stands now, I have heard absolutely zero evidence the KPA can do the types of classic 80's metal tones I'm looking for. That was the whole premise in reaching out in this thread. Somebody please demonstrate this can be done using the KPA and share how..... :/
    Sonic

    You've had the KPA for 5 years and spent how much time chasing your dream tone via other people's profiles but it's too much effort to spend a few hours profiling amps that produce tone you know and love? That makes absolutely no sense. I mean, profiling your own amps to capture your tone is practically the whole point of the KPA.

    Quote from raunch


    What helped me cure my 25 year obsession with Eddie's tone was to learn the songs and not focus on the tone so much. Nowadays I just learn new riffs or techniques.

    Yes, this.There are roughly 2 types of guitar players. Obsessed with "tone" (usually can't play for shit, some of them become talented engineers though) and obsessed with playing (quite often can play a bit). There are also Joe Bonamassa, Eddie etc. who got both, but they are rare.


    The best tone "investment" I have ever made was practicing regularly.


    Technology is so good now (analog or digital, tube amps got better too) that getting a good tone is really no problem and takes very little money and pretty much no time. There is no excuse to not to play the guitar because of "tone".


    On topic, if I wanted 100% accurate "tone" op is chasing about, I'd just plug SD-1 into cranked JCM-800, mic this (optionally profile, although this wouldn't sound good at bedroom level, so quite pointless) and add tons of compression on distorted guitars in the mix (thankfully no one does that anymore, afaik).


    BTW I am sure Virus can provide cheese synth tone from the intro :)

    I've recorded 30 or so covers using the Kemper over the past several years. The idea was to see if I could try to cop some of my favorite players tones while in the process attempting to wrap my head around all that the Kemper is, learn how to get the Kemper to sit in a mix, learn how to use my recording setup, and try to learn some cool guitar parts. Not sure I've succeeded at any of this, but it sure has been a lot of fun! Anyway, after reading this thread and others related, I've decided to post some of my isolated guitar tracks from these covers to provide cannon fodder for the debate. Please keep in mind I'm not the type to spend a whole bunch of time trying to exactly duplicate the guitar tone or parts - mostly because I don't have the time and I don't really know what the hell I am doing. I got the Kemper because I wanted to just be able to turn the thing on, hit record, and go. For me it's the first time I've had a piece of gear that has allowed me to do so, and has been quite satisfying to my ears at least. I don't have access to all sorts of amps, cabinets, and other gear so for me the Kemper is the best piece of gear I've ever owned. Warts and all, here's the first installment...


    Bark At The Moon (Kemper guitar only cover)

    Good stuff, @chopsfromhell! :thumbup:


    @SonicExporer,


    Hi Sonic,


    I think I mentioned this in the other thread, but it may bears repeating...


    Keep in mind that a key aspect of Vivian Campbell's tone on Dio's "Holy Diver" was a Boss Super Overdrive SD-1 into a stock Marschall JCM800. If you are seriously focused on recreating that exact tone, you can't leave the SD-1 out of the equation. That, plus the fact that his Les Paul were equipped with Dimarzio Dual Sounds DP101s.


    I hear a lot of talk about power tube distortion...and I am sure that is there. But, when I hear the compressed (heavily) distortion on "Holy Diver", I definitely can hear that Boss SD-1. Before you throw in the towel, I would recommend you at least try to get your hands on a decent SD-1, and try it, in front of your KPA, with a good JCM800 profile.


    The regular issue Boss SD-1 ($49) might be just fine, but if you are into vintage authentic specs, then you may need to spring for this:


    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SD1W


    Cheers,
    John