Fizziness/problem with ME using the Kemper

raphaelnano · May 8th 2018

Quote from Monkey_Man

It might be an idea to post a clip or two of some of those examples that you say are much-worse, Raphael.

It'll be easier for us to identify the issue if you can provide exaggerated examples of it, I feel.

On my CrapMac™ mono speaker (built into the computer) I think I can hear something, but if it's a "worse" example, that'd really help I reckon.

Quote from Bommel

I added a Frequency curve of a marshall headphone at the bottom, i chose just one (Marshall Major II) to show the highs because headphones always have a distorted spectrum in the highs since they most of the time only have one driver for all frequencies so even the gutiar sounds i like sound not so good on headphones because the spikes will always pronounce some hizz or harshness. you can check that out at kopfhoerer.de even the most expensive headphones have that since it is mor of a physical problem. So i always recommend twaeking with monitors -> just as a side note

I listened to the track and i get what you mean, the 87jub was the best sounding imo but yeah maybe if simply comes down to the profiles itself

wanna try my profiles ? maybe you find something you like, they are all free
i don't have the Elevenrack anymore but here is the eleven rack folder
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tvu…8eXcE-o0LtS8dGaWx4ra?dl=0
maybe this works for you

the link to all of my profiles is in my signature.

In case you want to stick to the profiles you use right now try adding a studio eq after the amp and take a midband with a very high q nad look for the hiss in you signal, most of the time that is around 4-5kHz this could help
you can always use the body rez or a real compressor pedal in front of the kemper that also works wonders as i showed here

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and try in the amp section turning clarity and definition a bit down

maybe this helps cheers and good luck man! i can take some time to get used to the kemper imo

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Quote from Monkey_Man

Especially Clarity. That'll often exaggerate unwanted fizz, IMHO, especially as one approaches higher settings.
EDIT:
Raphael, it's worth noting for your benefit, I feel, that there's never been an issue with fizz using the Kemper. There've been "legitimate" criticisms about a very-slight roll-off of low frequencies (below 100Hz, which TBH shouldn't matter for guitar, and even then, I and many others find the unit stellar for bass guitar), and a "cocked-wah" effect that some with good ears have detected in the mid range of some Profiles (subtle, but there for some nevertheless). The point being that excessive fizz is something that's always been able to be put down to "user error", meaning that it's the choice of guitar, PU's, settings on the unit, monitoring or one or some of the many potential pitfalls others have pointed out.

Thank you very much guys!

Monkey_Man, thank you for your tips and infos! I recorded some clips using my Gibson Les Paul Custom, for some reason, I just can't sound like the YouTube demos which is why I bought the Kemper. Maybe I'm not used to work with tube amps and how they sound "raw". I only used digital units. It's crazy I prefer my very cheap DigiTech RP255 lead sound (Click Here).

Bommel, thank you for taking the time to explain and for your presets! You'll find some worse clips now and check the video I linked in this post (Here) .. This is a DigiTech RP255 and I prefer this for lead work and I am mainly a soloist. I will try your 11Rack profiles, thank you again for that!

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Guys, I apologize if I am not making any sense, I'm trying to love the sounds from my Kemper and trying to jam without thinking. I just can't like the sounds

NOTE: The way I liked my 11 Rack was turning "Axis" Off.. I don't know what's that since I have never mic'd a cab, but it took the harshness away, It had the harshness I am experiencing with the Kemper now, but when I turned Axis off, it was much smoother.

Monkey_Man · May 8th 2018

Ah-ha!

Turning the "Axis Off" on that unit probably eliminates the modelled "angled" mic position and turns on the "straight" (that's pointing directly at the speaker cone so the mic is the stem in a "T" (right angle).

Something I've always disliked is the... you guessed it, fizz one gets from angling a mic. Many do like it however, and that's why many Profiles are intentionally made using the technique, mainly, in my experience, 'cause it helps sounds easily cut through a mix. Problem for me is it makes them cut through my brain, and I don't need that.

Now, that effect is caused by comb filtering / phase cancellation due to the mic's being angled (frequencies arriving at the mic's membrane (diaphragm) at slightly-different times), and it's something that the Pure Cab™ feature is designed to minimise to your taste on a scale of 1 to 10.

I'd therefore run (don't walk!) to the Pure Cab™ setting in the Output menu (push the soft key to turn it on) and, starting at zero, gradually raise it, listening carefully to the "phasiness" / harshness factor you don't like, and see how you go.

There's a setting in the Cab section (I think that's where it is) for this on a per-Rig basis, but some, including myself, often simply leave the Global one at a lowish setting for good measure. It's really only those who're "allergic" to this effect who do this, and as I said, I'm one of them. IIRC, a setting of between 2.5 and 3.5 eliminates enough of it for me to be happy, but of course, YMMV, and that's only if this helps at all.

All that said, your description of "fizz" from the beginning might've had us chasing the wrong thing / symptom, 'cause this "angled-mic" effect, whilst it does cause fizziness, also affects the attack (pick sound included) as much as anything else, and I personally was listening for a more-sustained fizziness in the examples you gave. I did hear some fizz, but it tended to die down after a few seconds and thereafter the sustained power chords you played sounded great / more-organic, and closer to what you're after, I think.

HTH, mate.

Gary_W · May 8th 2018

One more thought.

What plectrum are you using?

I started off using old Hercos and Dunlops with max .78 gauge and both were fine. I then thought I’d experiment with a thicker pick and bought one of the V-Picks Diamonds.

This plectrum turned a sound from something I was 100% happy with into something that had a fizzy, brittle, metallic edge that I did not find at all pleasant. It was like someone took my pickups and sent them through a poor quality piezo bridge! If that were my only plectrum that I ever used, I would be telling everyone that the Kemper is terrible. I wouldn’t have believed the difference was so extreme but it was.

Not saying that’s your issue but just wanted to point out that the pick itself has a profound effect on the sound and, in my case, ruined the way that I personally like it to sound..... there will be others here who happily play the strings with a tree trunk and are used to what that does... might be worth a tr6 with a thicker / thinner pick to see if you get closer.

patrick2099 · May 8th 2018

Also, I have an eq locked in the X slot, where I have low cut around 125 hz and a high cut around 8 Khz. Had it like that so long that I forgot to mention it. That may take care of some shrillness and fatten up the tone for you.

raphaelnano · May 8th 2018

Quote from Monkey_Man

Ah-ha!

Turning the "Axis Off" on that unit probably eliminates the modelled "angled" mic position and turns on the "straight" (that's pointing directly at the speaker cone so the mic is the stem in a "T" (right angle).

Something I've always disliked is the... you guessed it, fizz one gets from angling a mic. Many do like it however, and that's why many Profiles are intentionally made using the technique, mainly, in my experience, 'cause it helps sounds easily cut through a mix. Problem for me is it makes them cut through my brain, and I don't need that.

Now, that effect is caused by comb filtering / phase cancellation due to the mic's being angled (frequencies arriving at the mic's membrane (diaphragm) at slightly-different times), and it's something that the Pure Cab™ feature is designed to minimise to your taste on a scale of 1 to 10.

I'd therefore run (don't walk!) to the Pure Cab™ setting in the Output menu (push the soft key to turn it on) and, starting at zero, gradually raise it, listening carefully to the "phasiness" / harshness factor you don't like, and see how you go.

There's a setting in the Cab section (I think that's where it is) for this on a per-Rig basis, but some, including myself, often simply leave the Global one at a lowish setting for good measure. It's really only those who're "allergic" to this effect who do this, and as I said, I'm one of them. IIRC, a setting of between 2.5 and 3.5 eliminates enough of it for me to be happy, but of course, YMMV, and that's only if this helps at all.

All that said, your description of "fizz" from the beginning might've had us chasing the wrong thing / symptom, 'cause this "angled-mic" effect, whilst it does cause fizziness, also affects the attack (pick sound included) as much as anything else, and I personally was listening for a more-sustained fizziness in the examples you gave. I did hear some fizz, but it tended to die down after a few seconds and thereafter the sustained power chords you played sounded great / more-organic, and closer to what you're after, I think.

HTH, mate.

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I'm very sorry for not knowing how to explain! I am a noob when it comes to amps and cabs, I was a flamenco guitarist, never dealt with all that stuff (picks, amps, pedals, cables, cabs, pickups, string gauges, you name it. Good days).. I will check the options you mentioned and I hope (/believe) that is what I am trying to fix! Thank you very much, my friend!

raphaelnano · May 8th 2018

Quote from Gary_W

One more thought.

What plectrum are you using?

I started off using old Hercos and Dunlops with max .78 gauge and both were fine. I then thought I’d experiment with a thicker pick and bought one of the V-Picks Diamonds.

This plectrum turned a sound from something I was 100% happy with into something that had a fizzy, brittle, metallic edge that I did not find at all pleasant. It was like someone took my pickups and sent them through a poor quality piezo bridge! If that were my only plectrum that I ever used, I would be telling everyone that the Kemper is terrible. I wouldn’t have believed the difference was so extreme but it was.

Not saying that’s your issue but just wanted to point out that the pick itself has a profound effect on the sound and, in my case, ruined the way that I personally like it to sound..... there will be others here who happily play the strings with a tree trunk and are used to what that does... might be worth a tr6 with a thicker / thinner pick to see if you get closer.

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Oh wow! It is definitely worth a try then! Thank you Gary!

I do use thicker picks for dynamics and speed (John Pitrucci Jazz by Dunlop), these picks' size and thickness are great for my playing style, not so sure about the sound though! I will get as many picks as I can (Or go to a local music store with my Kemper) and try them all!

raphaelnano · May 8th 2018

Quote from patrick2099

Also, I have an eq locked in the X slot, where I have low cut around 125 hz and a high cut around 8 Khz. Had it like that so long that I forgot to mention it. That may take care of some shrillness and fatten up the tone for you.

Will definitely do that as well, Patrick! Thank you for your suggestions! I believe all the tips I got here will get me much closer to the sound I'm after!

V8guitar · May 8th 2018

Couple of comments from me:

1) I am convinced the sound you want is in the Kemper so you will get there but
2) I think this is a definite case you being used to digital amps. The sound you love and have got used to seem more "processed" to me...not a bad thing...but less like a tube amp ( as you mentioned).

I hope you find "that tone", your playing sounds great btw:)

raphaelnano · May 8th 2018

Quote from V8guitar

Couple of comments from me:

1) I am convinced the sound you want is in the Kemper so you will get there but
2) I think this is a definite case you being used to digital amps. The sound you love and have got used to seem more "processed" to me...not a bad thing...but less like a tube amp ( as you mentioned).

I hope you find "that tone", your playing sounds great btw:)

Thank you very much mate! you're totally right, the problem was with me not being used to playing with raw mic'd tube amp tones.

A huge problem with me is, I moved from Iraq where there was only fake Chinese gear so I didn't try any good gear, I only dreamt about playing Gibsons and Fenders.. so growing up to seeing my idols playing Gibsons and Fenders (and how they make string bends look so easy with their guitars) I expected A LOT from a good guitar so I got a Gibson Custom from Turkey and I was disappointed it didn't improve my playing (which was what I expected), it just felt nicer in the hand.. after I got used to it, and accepting the fact that it isn't what I expected, it grew on me for some reason and I love that guitar more than myself now.

I think this is the case with amps thing.. I just gotta accept it isn't the sound I expected and I will eventually get used to it and start loving it.

GearJocke · May 8th 2018

You need to recalibrate your ears.

Sharry · May 8th 2018

Perhabs you could get more experience for the sound tweaking , when you start with clean sounding profiles.
And look for the parameter "gain" and the parameter in the ampsection.
Check the tutorial on the Kemper home page (support) and generell at YouTube.
Small steps are sometimes faster than large ones.

In the last few years I've read postings of ambitious guitarists here, who were struggling to find their sound with the KPA at the beginning.
The higher the requirements, the more it is necessary to consider the possibilities.
Very rarely was the shotgun thrown in the grain and many of those who seemed to despair at first are now ardent fans.
Good luck to find the trust for your sounds.

BTW: I needed 3 month to become friend with the Kemper, but I always was convinced that the problem is me and not the kemper

BTW2: Your playing is great

397f7c95538961c9090da40b2b0b6e229b278069 · May 8th 2018

I was going to suggest swapping out some different cabs perhaps? Don't give up Raph - your playing deserves what the Kemper has to offer you, give it some time!

V8guitar · May 8th 2018

Quote from raphaelnano

Thank you very much mate! you're totally right, the problem was with me not being used to playing with raw mic'd tube amp tones.
A huge problem with me is, I moved from Iraq where there was only fake Chinese gear so I didn't try any good gear, I only dreamt about playing Gibsons and Fenders.. so growing up to seeing my idols playing Gibsons and Fenders (and how they make string bends look so easy with their guitars) I expected A LOT from a good guitar so I got a Gibson Custom from Turkey and I was disappointed it didn't improve my playing (which was what I expected), it just felt nicer in the hand.. after I got used to it, and accepting the fact that it isn't what I expected, it grew on me for some reason and I love that guitar more than myself now.

I think this is the case with amps thing.. I just gotta accept it isn't the sound I expected and I will eventually get used to it and start loving it.

Whilst I don't think that is totally it, its definitely a part of it..

In the past when I bought a new amp, I never tried it in the shop...why? Because I knew it would sound totally different to what I was used to and what it would be like in a band context. Therefore I could not tell if it was right...I bought mainly based upon research and reviews...crazy eh?

Then I would spend the next few months learning if I really liked it. I have the same problem with profiles...I go and try another profile that everyone says is ace and usually I quite like it....until I go back to my original which I prefer. I think that is 99% my ears

The good news is that its so flexible, the sound is in there....my biggest problem is I could never work out what was "wrong" with any sound I didn't like.

Monkey_Man · May 8th 2018

I must say that it's fantastic and refreshing that Raphael is so open to listening to all the suggestions we've thrown at him. Kudos to you, Raphael!

Two things jump out at me about this thread:

1) It shows how willing we all are to help in any way we can.
2) If the recipient is keen to learn it makes for the perfect collaboration.

raphaelnano · May 9th 2018

Quote from GearJocke

You need to recalibrate your ears.

Hahah I'm doing my best

raphaelnano · May 9th 2018

Quote from Sharry

Perhabs you could get more experience for the sound tweaking , when you start with clean sounding profiles.
And look for the parameter "gain" and the parameter in the ampsection.
Check the tutorial on the Kemper home page (support) and generell at YouTube.
Small steps are sometimes faster than large ones.

In the last few years I've read postings of ambitious guitarists here, who were struggling to find their sound with the KPA at the beginning.
The higher the requirements, the more it is necessary to consider the possibilities.
Very rarely was the shotgun thrown in the grain and many of those who seemed to despair at first are now ardent fans.
Good luck to find the trust for your sounds.

BTW: I needed 3 month to become friend with the Kemper, but I always was convinced that the problem is me and not the kemper

BTW2: Your playing is great

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Thank you very much brother! No doubt that I will definitely like the Kemper more as it can produce any guitar tone. I actually kinda started liking the profiles I have (not fully but I'm definitely not thinking about selling it anymore ). I have been studying the Kemper for about a year .. the tones I heard on YouTube and the portability when gigging just blew my mind, and even tho I wasn't happy with it when I got it, I am starting to feel MUCH better knowing it's a matter of time, all because of you guys! Thank you very much again!

Monkey_Man · May 9th 2018

You're a gem, mate.

raphaelnano · May 9th 2018

Quote from 808illest

I was going to suggest swapping out some different cabs perhaps? Don't give up Raph - your playing deserves what the Kemper has to offer you, give it some time!

Thank you so much mate!! I did try some cabs just now and the difference in tone is just huge! Will be trying all the cabs! I think I heard a cover of someone using Top Jimi YJM100 with EVH 4X12 cab... he sounded just great!

I'm very happy I'm feeling more comfortable with the Kemper all because of you guys.. took me awhile to save for it since I'm 19 and a newcomer in Canada, I even didn't buy myself a car just to get a Kemper so I thought I made a big mistake when I first got it.. not anymore

Thanks a lot again my friend!

raphaelnano · May 9th 2018

Quote from V8guitar

Whilst I don't think that is totally it, its definitely a part of it..
In the past when I bought a new amp, I never tried it in the shop...why? Because I knew it would sound totally different to what I was used to and what it would be like in a band context. Therefore I could not tell if it was right...I bought mainly based upon research and reviews...crazy eh?

Then I would spend the next few months learning if I really liked it. I have the same problem with profiles...I go and try another profile that everyone says is ace and usually I quite like it....until I go back to my original which I prefer. I think that is 99% my ears

The good news is that its so flexible, the sound is in there....my biggest problem is I could never work out what was "wrong" with any sound I didn't like.

Now that's a great mindset when buying new gear I absolutely agree.. will definitely have that mindset next time I buy gear! Thank you very much for that, my friend!

Oh man, what a great forum Kemper has

raphaelnano · May 9th 2018

Quote from Monkey_Man

I must say that it's fantastic and refreshing that Raphael is so open to listening to all the suggestions we've thrown at him. Kudos to you, Raphael!

Two things jump out at me about this thread:

1) It shows how willing we all are to help in any way we can.
2) If the recipient is keen to learn it makes for the perfect collaboration.

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Quote from Monkey_Man

You're a gem, mate.

Thank you so much for your kind words my brother! Much appreciated!

I totally agree with you, mate, I noticed that this forum's members are much kinder and really want to help even tho you guys had to re-explain some very basic things that are boring.

I thank everyone who took the time to read, listen and write their suggestions and tips to help.. knowing how cool you guys are here, I will definitely be more active on this forum.

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