with 2x12 Kone you should be able to manage situations like that. I don't trus 1x12 Kone anymore
Btw. 2x12 sounds better IMO
2x12 Kone only makes a difference if you use a separate power amp.
The Kemper power amp halves the volume due to impedance.
As a result, to me it sounds no different to 1x12 Kone and I've cranked mine to ear splitting volumes no issue. I suspect the others were faulty.
I've used my Kabinet live outdoors a few times and as others have said there's lots of headroom for a loud rock band.
There was someone on this forum who had a buzzing/rattling noise in his Kab. He opened it up and tightened the screws that hold the speaker in the Kabinet and that solved his issue.
Speakers do blow, and maybe yours did, but it's a 200w speaker and it can take a lot of power.
200 watts is not a lot of power for a live band. Most PAs are a 1000 watts at the low end.
200 watts is not a lot of power for a live band. Most PAs are a 1000 watts at the low end.
200w is loads for a guitar. PA cabinets and bass cabinets need the extra power to reproduce low frequencies which the hguitar doesn’t produce.
200w is loads for a guitar. PA cabinets and bass cabinets need the extra power to reproduce low frequencies which the hguitar doesn’t produce.
Hi, that hasn’t been my experience. Our band uses 1000 watts just for floor monitors. I know 200 watts is plenty for a guitar cabinet but not an FRFR which is what I believe the Kone is. Then again, we run everything through the mains including drums and bass. Don’t know a whole lot about the Kone though so happy to be corrected. Cheers
Hi, that hasn’t been my experience. Our band uses 1000 watts just for floor monitors. I know 200 watts is plenty for a guitar cabinet but not an FRFR which is what I believe the Kone is. Then again, we run everything through the mains including drums and bass. Don’t know a whole lot about the Kone though so happy to be corrected. Cheers
Everything is relative. Genre obviously makes a difference but in my experience if you need more than 200w for guitar then you are too loud on stage.
200w is 200w regardless of whether it is a guitar cabinet or an FRFR speaker. The speaker efficiency is far more important than the wattage. I could be wrong but I believe the Kone is a rebadged (perhaps tweaked) K12H - 200TC. That has a sensitivity of 98db which is the same as a G12 greenback. A Vintage 30 is 100db though which is seriously loud.
Its also about the instruments frequency range and human ear sensitivity. The ear is mid-range centric so it requires louder bass and treble than mids to hear evenly.
Incidentally keep in mind that the passive kab/kone is 200 watts @ 4 ohm, but I believe the toaster output power @ 4 ohm is rated 600 watts.
Was just tooling around behind my power toaster and it is actually 600watts @ 8ohms. That means it can probably push around 1200 watts @ 4ohms.
Everything is relative. Genre obviously makes a difference but in my experience if you need more than 200w for guitar then you are too loud on stage.
200w is 200w regardless of whether it is a guitar cabinet or an FRFR speaker. The speaker efficiency is far more important than the wattage. I could be wrong but I believe the Kone is a rebadged (perhaps tweaked) K12H - 200TC. That has a sensitivity of 98db which is the same as a G12 greenback. A Vintage 30 is 100db though which is seriously loud.
You’re right. I was thinking tube amp wattage. Not speaker wattage. Yeah, I sometimes think we’re too loud but the 250 watt floor monitor I was using wasn’t cutting it. Doesn’t Fender’s FRFR cab have 1000 watts?
You’re right. I was thinking tube amp wattage. Not speaker wattage. Yeah, I sometimes think we’re too loud but the 250 watt floor monitor I was using wasn’t cutting it. Doesn’t Fender’s FRFR cab have 1000 watts?
Yes and no. Like the powered kemper, the amp section is class D. Those need much more wattage to deliver the same volume ranges without clipping (like natural tube overdrive). If a class D amp clips it sounds horrible so its used to amplify without colouring. Consider fender's tonemaster deluxe. It is a 100 watt class D but delivers the same overall volume as the 20 watt tube amp. In the 1000 watt version, probably 800-ish watts goes to the woofer and the rest to the tweeter for an even band. A tube equivalent would probably range around 120-150 watts.
To try and kill this.....
First - I use a Kabinet with the Powerrack....during one rehearsal I decided to turn it up to painful levels - way louder than any loud drummer i've gigged with...and that showed on the power meter around 25 to 30 watts.
This is all different to spread and cut which play a huge part. I have found that the Kabinet has way, way more spread than a 4x12 even. With regards to cut, that depends on speaker placement and eq - if you sound clashes, it will get drowned out by the other instrument so finding your own sonic space is essential.
Comparing to PA speakers is pointless because they are dealing with different speakers. For example, 100w valve amp is plenty for a guitar but relatively low power for Bass guitar. PA speaker are FRFR but they have to contend with so many frequencies, whereas guitars are relatively narrow.
Finally,. this is all for monitoring only. Anyone trying to play purely off the backline, regardless of amp set up etc., will get problems.
So, anyone that does not get enough volume out of the kabinet for monitoring has either got a setting wrong or is deaf IMO.
Display MoreTo try and kill this.....
First - I use a Kabinet with the Powerrack....during one rehearsal I decided to turn it up to painful levels - way louder than any loud drummer i've gigged with...and that showed on the power meter around 25 to 30 watts.
This is all different to spread and cut which play a huge part. I have found that the Kabinet has way, way more spread than a 4x12 even. With regards to cut, that depends on speaker placement and eq - if you sound clashes, it will get drowned out by the other instrument so finding your own sonic space is essential.
Comparing to PA speakers is pointless because they are dealing with different speakers. For example, 100w valve amp is plenty for a guitar but relatively low power for Bass guitar. PA speaker are FRFR but they have to contend with so many frequencies, whereas guitars are relatively narrow.
Finally,. this is all for monitoring only. Anyone trying to play purely off the backline, regardless of amp set up etc., will get problems.
So, anyone that does not get enough volume out of the kabinet for monitoring has either got a setting wrong or is deaf IMO.
I strongly disagree. That might be your experience, some people made others. You wrote:
"So, anyone that does not get enough volume out of the kabinet for monitoring has either got a setting wrong or is deaf IMO."
I think that is pretty offensive!! I'm neither deaf nor do I get the settings wrong (I'm electronic engineer with knowledge about electronics and acoustics).
And I'm not the only one who made this experience as you can read from more than one user!
Only because it works for you does not mean that it works for others. And if poeple don't agree with ones experiences, there is no need to get offensive.
I recommend to everybody, try it out yourself. Compare 1x12" Kone with 2x12" Kone and you'll find out what works better for you. I did that several times and in diferent situations and I came to my conclusion. So I would, if a drummer is involved, use 2x Kabinet or a 2x12" loaded with Kones (if you don't connect the Kemper to additional monitors on stage or PA for rehearsal)
Display MoreI strongly disagree. That might be your experience, some people made others. You wrote:
"So, anyone that does not get enough volume out of the kabinet for monitoring has either got a setting wrong or is deaf IMO."I think that is pretty offensive!! I'm neither deaf nor do I get the settings wrong (I'm electronic engineer with knowledge about electronics and acoustics).
And I'm not the only one who made this experience as you can read from more than one user!
Only because it works for you does not mean that it works for others. And if poeple don't agree with ones experiences, there is no need to get offensive.
I recommend to everybody, try it out yourself. Compare 1x12" Kone with 2x12" Kone and you'll find out what works better for you. I did that several times and in diferent situations and I came to my conclusion. So I would, if a drummer is involved, use 2x Kabinet or a 2x12" loaded with Kones (if you don't connect the Kemper to additional monitors on stage or PA for rehearsal)
Not sure why you see that is offensive but sorry you took it that way. It was a light hearted comment which I can only imagine is likely to offend deaf people, but anyway...
There is some facts in my statement, not totally subjective.
The volume from a 600watt Class D Amp going into a 200watt cab running at 4 ohms with the right eq is very loud.
Many people on this forum have complained at not enough volume and then realized their power boost is not turned up.
As a sound engineer you will understand that 2 x12 kones run by the same power amp will instantly drop the volume. I don't know the science behind this but my simple understanding is in series the resistance doubles to 8 ohms, which means the power amp can only provide less power ( 300 watts I think). You can't run is parallel as the ohmage would drop below 4 ohms. This isn't subjective although appreciate its not all linear ( power vs volume etc).
I found running 2 speakers produced no more spread if stacked ( like a 2x12). That wasn't just me, no one in my band or when I gigged this config noticed. In fact 1x12 had a minor improvement. This is subjective and I suspect your difference might have been the cab itself - I used 2 Kabinets so it was consistant. Therefore would essentially be an eq rather than volume point.
Whilst I agree people should try it, its expensive to just buy speakers to try out ( retrun policies are not the same everywhere). My point is, logically "just" adding another speaker, particularly in the same cabinet will not increase volume which is what I experienced.
Happy to be corrected..
Display MoreNot sure why you see that is offensive but sorry you took it that way. It was a light hearted comment which I can only imagine is likely to offend deaf people, but anyway...
There is some facts in my statement, not totally subjective.
The volume from a 600watt Class D Amp going into a 200watt cab running at 4 ohms with the right eq is very loud.
Many people on this forum have complained at not enough volume and then realized their power boost is not turned up.
As a sound engineer you will understand that 2 x12 kones run by the same power amp will instantly drop the volume. I don't know the science behind this but my simple understanding is in series the resistance doubles to 8 ohms, which means the power amp can only provide less power ( 300 watts I think). You can't run is parallel as the ohmage would drop below 4 ohms. This isn't subjective although appreciate its not all linear ( power vs volume etc).
I found running 2 speakers produced no more spread if stacked ( like a 2x12). That wasn't just me, no one in my band or when I gigged this config noticed. In fact 1x12 had a minor improvement. This is subjective and I suspect your difference might have been the cab itself - I used 2 Kabinets so it was consistant. Therefore would essentially be an eq rather than volume point.
Whilst I agree people should try it, its expensive to just buy speakers to try out ( retrun policies are not the same everywhere). My point is, logically "just" adding another speaker, particularly in the same cabinet will not increase volume which is what I experienced.
Happy to be corrected..
thanks for these thoughts. I'm sorry that I did not answer earlier!! right now I'm very busy with electronical problems with machines at my regular job. As soon as I'll find time I'm planning to prepare an electrotechnical/acoustical analysis about this topic. But that will take some time. I don’t want to speculate, so I’ll have to study some theory first to be able to explain it scientifically.
thanks for these thoughts. I'm sorry that I did not answer earlier!! right now I'm very busy with electronical problems with machines at my regular job. As soon as I'll find time I'm planning to prepare an electrotechnical/acoustical analysis about this topic. But that will take some time. I don’t want to speculate, so I’ll have to study some theory first to be able to explain it scientifically.
No problem and I'd like to hear the science behind this as I know very little technically, I can only give both my experience and the logic/basic science behind it.
I stand by what I said in that I challenge anyone to stand next to the Kabinet run by the Powerrack cranked up and say its not loud enough. Sometimes it might not "cut" through, but that is an eq issue which is commonly what people get confused by..
I tested this again last night......I have my tried and trusted profile for rhythm and it sounds pretty good in a band context, cuts through well. I recently also found a really thick, fat high gain sound I really like and I set it at an equal volume. Half way through as song I switched over to it and....I disappeared. Switched back...hello again. The difference was dramatic. I know I would have to crank it way higher to be able to hear it, but it would also muddy everything up.
EQ/sonic space is king. That's about as technical as I get 
thanks for these thoughts. I'm sorry that I did not answer earlier!! right now I'm very busy with electronical problems with machines at my regular job. As soon as I'll find time I'm planning to prepare an electrotechnical/acoustical analysis about this topic. But that will take some time. I don’t want to speculate, so I’ll have to study some theory first to be able to explain it scientifically.
Electronic/acoustic vocabulary (in english), i'm afraid i'll be lost but curious to read your conclusions 
