Kemper Stage

    I currently own a Vox AC15C1 combo amp, and I recently just purchased a Kemper Stage.

    I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to play the Kemper Stage through the Vox speaker? Normally you could plug the Kemper into the amp through the Effects Loop, but the AC15C1 unfortunately does not have an Effects Loop.

    Would I have to disconnect the speaker from the amp portion of the combo, and run the Kemper Stage directly into the speaker with an external “power amp” pedal in between?

    Or could I keep everything attached inside the combo amp, and then plug the Kemper directly into either the Normal or Top Boost channel?

    I don’t want to damage the Vox or the Kemper, but I wanted to see if I could get away with not having to purchase another piece of expensive equipment, like a Kemper active cab.


    Thank you for taking the time to read this message and respond. I appreciate any advice you all can provide.

    -Dominic

    As advices above, i 'd tell you to invest into a FRFR system (monitor or PA).

    The fact is that the speaker is an important part of the sound, and with your greenback you'll lose versatility cause the color of your sound will stay the same...+ amp color in your case....

    Thank you all for the responses. I appreciate all the feedback.

    Would you all agree that the Kemper Power Cab produces the best sound compared to the other FRFRs and PAs out there?

    Quote from dderose

    Thank you all for the responses. I appreciate all the feedback.

    Would you all agree that the Kemper Power Cab produces the best sound compared to the other FRFRs and PAs out there?

    The Kabinet/Kone is a different animal than pa speakers or studio monitors, it has a sound all it's own. I bought a powered Kabinet but I didn't gel with it, other people have a complete opposite experience with them. I also bought 3 Kone's over time to load in my cabinets but again, I didn't gel with them, but that all falls under personal taste and why the market can support and have such a variety of options available, that market base is continually growing. Looking back now, I wish I would have paid a little more attention while perusing the forum to the advice such as the three forum members have given above. I have in other instances, and found that these guys as well as many others advice based on their experiences is invaluable.

    Another word of advice that is given often is read the manual, the more familiar you become with the stage, which takes some time, and the more familiar you become with the manual the easier it will be to make full use of the profiler and what it has to offer. To me that same application applies to every learning experience, for instance learning to play your instrument. You practice and practice but it seems to progress very slowly, then one day you hit a new plateau. What you've been working on becomes a new knowledge base that you can comfortably execute and build upon, and the process begins again until the next plateau is reached, that takes time and effort.

    You'll never get a particular monitor solution that is agreed upon unanimously, there are to many variables and personal tastes involved. Your original post was about using the stage with a combo amp which whippinpost91850, Wheresthedug and Steve5478 already addressed. I used a combo amp at home for four years, plugging into the effects return, it amplified the sound but it defeated the benefits of using the profiler. If that's all you have available at the moment then use it, but it will not represent the profiles intended sound at all. Also, what is the main use of the stage going to be? Are you recording at home, just to use as an amp at home, or live use with other performers. Knowing the intended use will result in more specific advice for your situation.

    Just my point of view here, if recording, headphones and studio monitors would probably be most beneficial. If you are just playing at home , studio monitors, pa speakers and the Kabinet will all work as a monitor. Live, pa speakers or the Kabinet are probably the best options. But keep in mind, to tweak profiles for live use, where you are plugging your profiler into a mixer for foh, you need a monitor that can give you a representation of what foh sound will be like. A very popular and more cost effective choice for that scenerio was given by whippinpost91850. I have pa speakers scheduled for delivery today and that is my final solution after six years of profiler ownership, I've spent way to much time and money on this pursuit. Don't repeat my mistakes, list your intended uses for the stage and you'll receive great advice from the forum, and last but not least, welcome to the forum!

    There are devices like the Boss Waza Tube amp Expander that help solve that problem. They help create a loop in old amps that have no loop like the AC15. Maybe that helps.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

    Like 1
    Quote from Alienator

    There are devices like the Boss Waza Tube amp Expander that help solve that problem. They help create a loop in old amps that have no loop like the AC15. Maybe that helps.

    I am sure the AC15 is brilliant amp (I love vox in general even though I’ve never owned one). i also believe the Boss TAE is a great product and would be fabulous in many situations but it is more than twice the price of a Kemper Powered Kabinet. You could have 2 Kabinets for a stereo monitor set up and fully range speakers for the cost of adding a TAE to a little AC15. I’m not sire that makes a lot of sense for most people.

    Thank you all for the advice and guidance.

    My intension is to use the Kemper Stage to plug direct into the system when playing at church. I believe they have stage monitors, but it would be nice to have my own personal one potentially.
    for practice time at home I will likely use headphones.

    For some gigs it requires an amp/speaker setup, in which I would like to use the Kemper for. I would like to find an option that won’t compromise the tone of the Kemper Profiles.


    I think at this point I agree that the best course of action would be to purchase a Kabinet or Powered PA Speaker. I ultimately need a product that won’t compromise tone, but can be used as a speaker cab for smaller gigs and potentially used as a personal PA for stage use.

    Thank you for the recommendation Whippinpost91850. I will have to look into the Atomic CLR FRFR cab. Do you find that it alters the tones of your profiles?

    Does anyone else have any other recommendations?


    Thank you everyone. I feel very fortunate to be apart of this forum group.

    The advent of digital 'amps' has generated a 'side' business called FRFR. This might not be historically correct, but it is my view. FRFR can be powered or passive, but these devices are typically marketed as solutions for monitoring your digital 'amp'. I believe there is quite a bit of hype surrounding FRFR. I see FRFR as nothing more than a monitoring system that can reproduce the input accurately. Which is exactly what any decent PA monitor solution should do. So, for me FRFR is a buzzword for what we already had. There is nothing magical about FRFR. I have a powerhead and use PA monitors that I've had for as long as 40 years and were designed and built long before FRFR was a thing.

    I use a headrush for a monitor on stage. Good enough. Then run to the front board into the PA. First i ran stereo and it sounded killer but as a 2 guitar band we couldnt really hear the other guitar. If there are 2 guitars run mono L or R. if you are the only guitarist on stage, youll be blown away.

    My headrush 108 started dying on me(random snapping and crackling at full volume) and I replaced it with a Kemper powered kab and it sounds much better to me and my band. Not cheap, but works better for us. Way less boomy/woofy.


    What works best for me might not for you though. The 108 worked “good enough” for me too, I only replaced it because it died.

    Quote from mnmountainbiker

    My headrush 108 started dying on me(random snapping and crackling at full volume) and I replaced it with a Kemper powered kab and it sounds much better to me and my band. Not cheap, but works better for us. Way less boomy/woofy.


    What works best for me might not for you though. The 108 worked “good enough” for me too, I only replaced it because it died.

    In my mind, every speaker is trying to produce a full flat response. So Studio Monitors are the best for home use. Especially if you record.


    PA SYSTEM

    A PA is just a very loud set of Studio Monitors. However, humans do not like to hear a flat response. Their is a frequency curve that we find appealing that is anything but flat. So PA speakers may be tuned that way from the factory or the sound person may EQ them that way live. So playing live is all about finding that right speaker that gets you close to what the sound person is producing.


    But this assumes YOU like what will be coming out of the FOH speakers, maybe you don't. If that sound is not inspiring, you will not enjoy playing.


    PERSONAL MONITOR

    Since the Kemper is pro level, you don't necessarily need to worry about the PA for your personal monitoring. You have options for multiple outputs. This is where things can get complicated. What you like may differ from what anyone else likes. This assumes you may tweak your profiles to match the PA and personal solution, etc. There are too many variables to make a great suggestion, only good suggestions.


    The smaller a speaker the harder it has to work (farther it has to move) to create bass at volume. The more it has to move, the more it reaches into a non-linear region and starts to sound bad. The suspension material becomes a drag force and the voice coil gets into non-linear regions of the magnetic field.


    If your stage volume is low, an 8" speaker may be fine. The speaker may be able to operate in the linear regions. If your stage volume is high, a 12" may give much better results. The 8" may give smoother mids though. So there are trade-offs.


    Then you have the issue of all speakers may sound different at different volumes. Amplifiers also add color as they are being pushed. So the solution that someone likes at one volume may sound horrible to you at a different volume.


    Many of the pros here like In Ear Monitors. But those wont help you in the situations you need to be heard.


    So you can see why so many people just throw darts at a dartboard until they find "a" solution. Like anything guitar related, their is no "right" solution. We all want new guitars, new Kempers, new monitors, etc.


    I only play at low volumes and at home, so my 8" studio monitors are perfect for me.


    To really nail what you want, you need to say how loud you are playing and what type of tone you are looking for. And then someone here with similar uses can make a suggestion.

    Quote from RosboneMako

    The smaller a speaker the harder it has to work (farther it has to move) to create bass at volume. The more it has to move, the more it reaches into a non-linear region and starts to sound bad. The suspension material becomes a drag force and the voice coil gets into non-linear regions of the magnetic field.


    If your stage volume is low, an 8" speaker may be fine. The speaker may be able to operate in the linear regions. If your stage volume is high, a 12" may give much better results. The 8" may give smoother mids though. So there are trade-offs.

    I know what you are saying and all other things being equal it is probably true but bear in mind that the classic bass stack is the Ampeg 8x10. I played bass on a band for 12 years and during the whole time I used an Ampeg 808 cabinet with 8 x 8” speakers. There was no shortage of bass at very loud stage volumes.

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    I know what you are saying and all other things being equal it is probably true but bear in mind that the classic bass stack is the Ampeg 8x10. I played bass on a band for 12 years and during the whole time I used an Ampeg 808 cabinet with 8 x 8” speakers. There was no shortage of bass at very loud stage volumes.

    It all comes down to surface area. A Bass requires some high freq so a smaller speaker is used to give you that snappy slapping sound. But to make up for the decreased surface area, you need more 8" speakers as opposed to say a single 15" or 18" to get the same volume.


    Area = PI * radius^2

    15" Area = 3.14159 * (7.5 * 7.5) = 177 in

    12" Area = 3.14159 * (6 * 6) = 113 in

    08" Area = 3.14159 * (4 * 4) = 50.3 in


    You need three 8" speakers to displace the same amount of air as a 15".


    The other issue is the lowest frequency. A guitar is not super low so a single 12" can be decent. A Bass can go very low so you need more speakers to create the same volume.


    Just my 2 cents. I could be completely wrong :)

    Fair point 👍