It's a modeler not a profiler.
it's not a modeler.
ToneX One
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It's a modeler not a profiler.
it's not a modeler.
I think it does both , there are integrated amps with modeling tech à la amplitube , and you can profile amps too ,
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From the link in the OP
"TONEX ONE puts IK’s revolutionary AI Machine Modeling technology on any size pedalboard, enabling you to perform with the world’s most sought-after tones in more ways than ever before. It truly makes unlimited tone accessible to all.
Ultra-compact and powerful, TONEX ONE stores up to 20 hyper-realistic modeled amps, cabs and stomps from a nearly infinite supply, so you can add it anywhere in your rig. You can even load models of your own gear captured with the included TONEX software. Effortlessly fit multiple units on your board for truly limitless tone possibilities. "
I'm sure if could profile they would have said so ...
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I think it does both , there are integrated amps with modeling tech à la amplitube , and you can profile amps too ,
Display MoreFrom the link in the OP
"TONEX ONE puts IK’s revolutionary AI Machine Modeling technology on any size pedalboard, enabling you to perform with the world’s most sought-after tones in more ways than ever before. It truly makes unlimited tone accessible to all.
Ultra-compact and powerful, TONEX ONE stores up to 20 hyper-realistic modeled amps, cabs and stomps from a nearly infinite supply, so you can add it anywhere in your rig. You can even load models of your own gear captured with the included TONEX software. Effortlessly fit multiple units on your board for truly limitless tone possibilities. "
I'm sure if could profile they would have said so ...
Its a profiler and not a modeler. The wording in these texts is badly chosen but its basically a mini Tonex that trades some input/output features for a lower price and smaller size. You can check out one of the many videos on YouTube about it if you dont believe me on my word.
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Yay, I got the pitchforks and torches going !!1!1
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The Tonex One does not capture/model/profile anything. That is done elsewhere with different hardware/software.
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I don't think that is the audience it is after. The pedal itself does not really process effects, other then reverb and compressor and that is minimal. From my prospective the ToneX is only meant to be the amp and cab for a pedalboard with your analog effects. Set up like that it really works exceptionally well.
I guess I hadn't thought about it like that before. I once had an ADA rack mount preamp, but quickly scratched the idea as the pedalboard plus preamp combo was the same complexity and a tube head and efx board.
When I decided to simplify my rig, all-in-one was all I looked at.
Now, I would like to have a mini rig with most of the capabilities as my kpa rack and fc.
I am watching the player mature, but also watching FM3 and Line6. ToneX just doesn't tick enough boxes in my case.
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"TONEX ONE puts IK’s revolutionary AI Machine Modeling technology ……
Is their “AI modeling” new or a just marketing gimmick? I don’t remember them using that term before.
God knows we can’t resist a good catch phrase.
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Is their “AI modeling” new or a just marketing gimmick? I don’t remember them using that term before.
God knows we can’t resist a good catch phrase.
Gimmick. A.I. can only mimiq what it's programing tells it too. That programming is made by humans. It can't "think" at least not yet. When it does, music won't matter anymore.
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Gimmick. A.I. can only mimiq what it's programing tells it too. That programming is made by humans. It can't "think" at least not yet. When it does, music won't matter anymore.
That statement is probably true for this wording, but it's not correct in general regarding AI. The NAM models are absolutely not programmed. They are trained using AI.
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I don't know where we are going to with all these posts which analyse in detail IK marketing semantics
Display MoreFrom the link in the OP
"TONEX ONE puts IK’s revolutionary AI Machine Modeling technology on any size pedalboard, enabling you to perform with the world’s most sought-after tones in more ways than ever before. It truly makes unlimited tone accessible to all.
Ultra-compact and powerful, TONEX ONE stores up to 20 hyper-realistic modeled amps, cabs and stomps from a nearly infinite supply, so you can add it anywhere in your rig. You can even load models of your own gear captured with the included TONEX software. Effortlessly fit multiple units on your board for truly limitless tone possibilities. "
I'm sure if could profile they would have said so ...
It's funny what you bold in those sentences. Personnaly, i would have bold and underlined : You can even load models of your own gear captured
And, i don't why, but it reminds me a device i know.
We can play with words but Tonex can play your duplicated gears (you need a Tonex Capture (hardware) to).... I assume we'll see devices that will "reproduce", "duplicate", "copy","replicate".....
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Tonex is most definitely a form of profiling/capturing. It is not a “modeler” per se.
Cool product. Capture tech is super accurate. Still, doesn’t sound as good as a guitar processor as a Kemper.
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Using Christoph’s own words….profiling *is* modeling:
For my circuit, there were simply too many interdependent parameters, and it would have taken ages to model just one or two dozen amps.
As a basically lazy person I spent my time trying to find an automated method, rather than modeling amps by hand.
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Using Christoph’s own words….profiling *is* modeling:
No, it is not. That isn't what his statement meant at all.
The various algorithms and routing needed to cover every amp with modeling was considered too difficult and clunky. As a result, Kemper decided to do something different (Profiling). This is fundamentally different than modeling.
Now, my belief as an engineer is that CK actually does have a generic model that he uses to tweak the capture/profile; however, that doesn't change the fact that the KPA fundamentally operates different than a modeler.
Note: ToneX and QC are also capture and model tools vs. pure modeling.
All of this is basically crap anyway. Who cares? How does it sound, and how well does the workflow match your needs? These are the important questions. Who cares how it manages to do it?
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No, it is not. That isn't what his statement meant at all.
The various algorithms and routing needed to cover every amp with modeling was considered too difficult and clunky. As a result, Kemper decided to do something different (Profiling). This is fundamentally different than modeling.
Now, my belief as an engineer is that CK actually does have a generic model that he uses to tweak the capture/profile; however, that doesn't change the fact that the KPA fundamentally operates different than a modeler.
Note: ToneX and QC are also capture and model tools vs. pure modeling.
All of this is basically crap anyway. Who cares? How does it sound, and how well does the workflow match your needs? These are the important questions. Who cares how it manages to do it?
I'm not sure what "find an automated method, rather than modeling amps by hand." means to others. To me that says "Profiling models amps.....automatically."
It's fundamentally different than traditional modeling. Yes. It's automated.
Whereas the tonestacks for Liquid Profiles are (apparently) done by manual means. Since they specifically state they're modeled.
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I'm not sure what "find an automated method, rather than modeling amps by hand." means to others. To me that says "Profiling models amps.....automatically."
It's fundamentally different than traditional modeling. Yes. It's automated.
Whereas the tonestacks for Liquid Profiles are (apparently) done by manual means. Since they specifically state they're modeled.
modeling an amp is an attempt to duplicate the analog circuit elements with digital models. Then a user can tweak the circuit to get different sounds.
Profiling or capture uses the idea of capturing the system response of any system by comparing ONLY the input and the output across a range of frequencies (like an impulse response but using a frequency sweep and impulse analysis and likely other methods).
Capturing well is likely a much more difficult task than modeling any single amp, but much much less work than modeling every amp with every setup on the planet.
As an aside, based on analysis, the ToneX does a more accurate job of capturing the amp exactly than the KPA, but still falls light years behind it in overall sound quality and gig workflow?
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OneEng1 its pedantic, but…
Profiling is not just across a range of frequencies. That’s how on IR works. Profiling considers both frequencies and amplitudes, thus capturing the amp and cab response to every variation in playing and pickup configuration.
My Tonex sounds quite good to me, but my Player sounds better. That’s just my opinion…
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modeling an amp is an attempt to duplicate the analog circuit elements with digital models. Then a user can tweak the circuit to get different sounds.
Profiling or capture uses the idea of capturing the system response of any system by comparing ONLY the input and the output across a range of frequencies (like an impulse response but using a frequency sweep and impulse analysis and likely other methods).
Capturing well is likely a much more difficult task than modeling any single amp, but much much less work than modeling every amp with every setup on the planet.
As an aside, based on analysis, the ToneX does a more accurate job of capturing the amp exactly than the KPA, but still falls light years behind it in overall sound quality and gig workflow?
If you insist on constraining the generic term of modeling to one method (component modeling),
then yeah. Profiling is not component modeling. Christoph said he was lazy and wanted an automated way to do it. That’s obvious.
Allow the term to be even slightly generic to permit other methodologies or ways to get a similar result - and you get Captures or Profiles or whatever marketing term isn’t taken.
They imitate, emulate, mimic, copy, replicate…..whatever. They all *model* the sound of an amplifier.
It’d be like saying a 3D printed plastic car isn’t a model because it wasn’t injection molded. Or made from wood or metal or whatever.
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OneEng1 its pedantic, but…
Profiling is not just across a range of frequencies. That’s how on IR works. Profiling considers both frequencies and amplitudes, thus capturing the amp and cab response to every variation in playing and pickup configuration.
My Tonex sounds quite good to me, but my Player sounds better. That’s just my opinion…
Agree.
As I stated earlier, all that matters is how it sounds and reacts. How it achieves it is not important!
