A big profiles theft!

  • It really gets to me, as i have spent the most on this forum on profiles and supported the vendors.
    There are some out there that are legion and dont forgive or forget.


    Be cool if Anonymous started helping in that way.... :whistling:
    Put up a website stealing kemper profiles, its gets taken down


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • This is just the way it is. Illegal distribution of anything that is not strictly hardware-based won't go away ever. This is due to human nature and limited financial resources... Sellers should calculate the effect of this into their business plan. I'm pretty sure they do and it is still worth it for them. ;) Maybe provide a lot of fast updates to existing profiles... or something similar to overcome illegal distribution.


    And really no offense to commercial sellers (I bought a lot of stuff and like some of it) but IMO they are for the most part only riding the waves of Mr. Kemper and his team. I think they should be grateful for any money they can make out of this and not whine all over the forum about the discovery that illegal distribution exists. It only generates more publicity, and presumably will further decrease their sales. And I know, I know, there are probably a lot of thinking and effort, time, money, whatever that went into making the profiles... but its simple: if it is not worth it for you in the end, don't do it. <3

  • Thats COMPLETELY one sided, IMO, the vendors HELP highlight the power of the kemper make it accessible to beginners to get a wide variety of INSTANT tone and amps that are sort after. There are many who have used the commercial packs live and in recording IT HAS t put a lot more diversity and talent out there to attract people and give them specific sounds.


    Know how many have used Sin;s and Deadlight studios packs for albums or live ? You dont.
    What about Michael Brit?? Or Andy? Did not think so, that is never gonna speak for me or them, they are what gets a lot of people making the Kemper work for them...
    make no mistake. Artist use commercial packs FOR A REASON.


    Ashtweth

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • Easy Brother Ash, easy boy... :D


    We're all entitled to our own opinions of course, but if you think about it, it's hard to argue against what Daniel said.


    Many put a lot of time in and charge nothing. If anything, it could be argued the the "commercial" guys, because of their generally-higher-quality gear and expertise, should perhaps be operating on a donation basis. That's still a "level above" what the rest of us ask for, and the time put in isn't necessarily a whole lot more than the djemasses, Tim Owens and r.u.siriuses of this world. Some have superb signal chains as well as audio-engineering expertise, like eljodon, and they don't ask for a thing. On the contrary, they're more likely to apologise for not having fulfilled their own expectations, promising to do better next time, even when the Profiles are great.


    None of us can know how it feels for you, not least 'cause you're in the enviable position of probably having bought more Profiles than anyone else on the planet, and on top of that you've often paid double (bought 2 sets) and very often donated extra, not only to show your appreciation but to encourage the profilers to continue to produce the things. You're a generous, honest, passionate soul, Ash, and that's why we love you.


    If anyone's entitled to feel cheated as much as the vendors themselves do, I reckon it'd be you, brother. Unfortunately 'though, the facts, as Daniel put them, remain. No comfort to you, I'm afraid, and I feel for you as well as the professional profilers in that regard. We all love what they do, and don't want to see any of them give up!


    This is just the way it is. Illegal distribution of anything that is not strictly hardware-based won't go away ever. This is due to human nature and limited financial resources... Sellers should calculate the effect of this into their business plan. I'm pretty sure they do and it is still worth it for them. ;) Maybe provide a lot of fast updates to existing profiles... or something similar to overcome illegal distribution.


    And really no offense to commercial sellers (I bought a lot of stuff and like some of it) but IMO they are for the most part only riding the waves of Mr. Kemper and his team. I think they should be grateful for any money they can make out of this and not whine all over the forum about the discovery that illegal distribution exists. It only generates more publicity, and presumably will further decrease their sales. And I know, I know, there are probably a lot of thinking and effort, time, money, whatever that went into making the profiles... but its simple: if it is not worth it for you in the end, don't do it. <3


    As I alluded to whilst addressing Ash, this is tough love, brother, but I can't see how anyone can deny these bare-bones facts.


    Kudos to you for having the balls to lay them out, Daniel.

  • Just read this in my holiday location.


    Best way would be - like with the Apple app store - that all selling would be centralized via Kemper. Maybe via the rig manager - and Kemper coult get a % for each sold profile.


    OMG! Did you lately read about the people who lost big part of their purchased music - because of a bug when Apple updated their store?!? Are you aware of the problems that some users had, to transfer their purchased content from one device to the other? Ii NEVER EVER want Kemper to go that way!

  • And really no offense to commercial sellers (I bought a lot of stuff and like some of it) but IMO they are for the most part only riding the waves of Mr. Kemper and his team. I think they should be grateful for any money they can make out of this and not whine all over the forum about the discovery that illegal distribution exists.


    I think gratitude is a moral dimension, but not a commercial basis.
    A promising bussiness can only work with partners on equal eye level. I think Kemper success depends also on good Profile Vendors. I see it as win win situation.
    In any case, it must also be profitable. In my opinion, a good copy protection could help.
    I believe also that the access to great sounds compensate the missing editor in a certain way.


    The RIG exchance is a great thing and you will also find many profiles which absolutely can measure to meet professional standards. But RE is a tool for a hobby and is not competitor to professional busssines and vice verse.
    For us as user it is an advantage if there are a alot of good profiles of many vendors available. It limits the prices and ensures quality

  • We're majorly into this for the love of tone.... Had a bunch of sweet amps anyway and was always going to get a Kemper from the minute had seen it - when they were first announced ! Also recall seeing a full page ad in a magazine and the words "game changer" either accompanied said ad or immediately sprang to mind....


    As we previously said; this is always going to happen as it's the nature of the digital realm, in essence you should build that risk into your business strategy. The fact that we can be financially compensated just makes up for the time and effort going into all the work -- whereas this time could otherwise be spent looking for a different career path ; that would likely return more in terms of financial gain but no doubt one that would be not so enjoyable.

  • The Profiler is one of the most successful guitar amp products in the recent history. And, as you can see, it is also a hardware platform we constantly improve by offering features and refinements. In other words, we are in for the long run and we want everybody to participate. Every user by benefitting from this product evolution and every sound-ware developer by getting access to a rapidly growing market at no extra expense. Because once Rigs are being produced you can sell them to more and more users because the user base grows everyday.


    But even though the cake is gaining weight, your fraction will not grow proportionally. That’s why “can” and not “do”. One reason is that there are more and more anglers standing around the pond. Piracy is certainly an issue as well but traditionally, the impact on special interest markets is very limited. It is far from being as bad as in music or films. Because you can’t walk over to your neighbor and ask him for some pirated Profiler rigs as you eventually would with your latest metal record. Instead you need to find those online or search for on market platforms. And if you take a closer look on e.g. Ebay there is not a vast amount of offers at all. In fact I was just looking briefly around and i didn’t see a single fishy auction. If there’s one, i’m sure the community of soundware developers can deal with those by networking and learning how to effectively act against it.


    You want to grow your marketshare? Up the stakes and make your offer stand out. Make better Profiles. Make something irresistible. Or something attractive and still different. Think of what people really need. (I'm sure half of all that you do anyway).


    By the way: give yourself a favor and don’t post a list of what one could get for nearly nothing. All you do is free advertisement for your enemy ... ;)

  • BAM!! The guy is back again and now with offering to exchange profiles wich is almost the same because I'm sure there will be some money involved too i informed Ebay again


    Wow, that was fast!! This is some serious asshole... Just know there are many many people supporting your, and other developer's work, and would never do "business" with a crook like him or her.

  • If there’s one, i’m sure the community of soundware developers can deal with those by networking and learning how to effectively act against it.


    The vendors should work together to find find ways to protect their work.!


    If the posting has to be read as an official position of the company Kemper, then actually no help from the company for a protection for commercial profiles can be expected.

  • I've spent about $500 on commercial profiles and really appreciate those who are good at it making a few bucks off their work. I also never share commercial profiles and have never used shared profiles. But that being said, the idea that profiles can be IP owned by the creator doesn't really sit right with me. Somehow it feels one step further removed from property than other intangibles like software or music. It feels one step closer to claiming to own your favorite Dual Rectifier setting because you spent 20 hours dialing it in. Is it really yours to own just because you worked hard on it and you make claim to it?


    Again, I don't know, and I don't feel really strongly one way or another. It's certainly a slippery ethical and legal area. I do think that using "pirated" profiles is crass, in the same way that using donation-ware apps without donating anything is crass. But crass isn't necessarily illegal. Paying for commercial profiles feels more like tipping your waiter (at least in the US). It's not mandatory, but it kind of is.

  • Actually you don't pay for the rig in itself, there's no "ownership" in this sense. You agree with the vendor that you pay for using the result of their skills and time.
    Since there's a necessary agreement before purchasing, I don't see the issue: if one doesn't agree with the idea of paying for someone else's time and efforts, they can just avoid purchasing.


    The alleged illegitimacy of producing and selling rigs can't be a reason to enforce the right to stole someone else's work, which has anyway be done.


    I could put my oldest left tennis sock on sale: the market will tell if it makes sense or not. But you can't grab it from my drier just because you think it doesn't :)

  • The alleged illegitimacy of producing and selling rigs can't be a reason to enforce the right to stole someone else's work, which has anyway be done.


    I could put my oldest left tennis sock on sale: the market will tell if it makes sense or not. But you can't grab it from my drier just because you think it doesn't


    Perfectly right. But nobody in this thread seems to doubt that, no?

  • Perfectly right. But nobody in this thread seems to doubt that, no?


    In this debate there're no mid-positions: either the profiler own their work or they don't...


    But that being said, the idea that profiles can be IP owned by the creator doesn't really sit right with me. Somehow it feels one step further removed from property than other intangibles like software or music. It feels one step closer to claiming to own your favorite Dual Rectifier setting because you spent 20 hours dialing it in. Is it really yours to own just because you worked hard on it and you make claim to it?

  • First of all, a sound is not protected by copyright. If it was, we should pay a fee every time we use an amp, a mic, a cable, a guitar in public.


    A good point - one that brings to mind the argument that, if they WERE protected by copyright, every time we use a rig on the Kemper we should be paying a royalty to Marshall, Bogner, etc... all the amps the profiles were made from in the first place. We'd all be guilty by those standards. I don't hear those manufacturers crying foul, or lawsuit. Not that I approve whatsoever what's been done by these thieves, but by using these we could all be seen almost as culpable when you stop and think about it.

  • by using these we could all be seen almost as culpable when you stop and think about it.


    I assume you mean "using these profiles"?
    If you do I'd disagree, exactly because you can't patent a sound. If we were guilty by this, we'd be - as I wrote - every time we use an amp on stage or in studio and don't pay a fee.
    The reason why we can play a Marshall free of charge is the same why we can play a profile of a Marshall free of charge.
    Hence, what you pay for when you purchase a profile is the profiler's time and skills, not the amp nor the sound. You're nevertheless using something created by others, that the author is willing to let you use only if you agree with their terms.


    It's like when someone offers to take a pic of you with fee in front of a monument (something that usually happens in the most popular tourist towns such as Rome): you're not paying for the camera, for the monument, for the light or for the right to be pictured: you're paying for the photographer's time and skills.

  • This is just the way it is. Illegal distribution of anything that is not strictly hardware-based won't go away ever. This is due to human nature and limited financial resources... Sellers should calculate the effect of this into their business plan. I'm pretty sure they do and it is still worth it for them. ;) Maybe provide a lot of fast updates to existing profiles... or something similar to overcome illegal distribution.


    And really no offense to commercial sellers (I bought a lot of stuff and like some of it) but IMO they are for the most part only riding the waves of Mr. Kemper and his team. I think they should be grateful for any money they can make out of this and not whine all over the forum about the discovery that illegal distribution exists. It only generates more publicity, and presumably will further decrease their sales. And I know, I know, there are probably a lot of thinking and effort, time, money, whatever that went into making the profiles... but its simple: if it is not worth it for you in the end, don't do it. <3


    Exactly what I said a while back but to less fanfare.