Kemper tuner for intonation

    hi,


    I dont have an expansive tuner at home.
    I would like to know if it can be used to setup my intonation.


    It is a guitar with Hannes Schaller bridge and earvana nut.


    This is how i do it:
    tune the strings
    play flageolett on 12 fret
    play fretted 12 fret


    It looks like that the saddles on the bridge dont have any impact on the intonation. I moved them up and down, no change.
    I get something like 0 with flageloett tone and +16 with fretting the 12th fret.
    I should move the saddles back to lower the fretted tone, but it does not change. I am already on maxium setting.
    Is this normal?


    thanks Dom

    If your action is set too high, more intonation compensation is needed and you may have run out of room when moving the sadle back. Also fresh strings can be misleading, be sure to strech them properly.
    Well, lots of things can come into play also (too much relief...) but maybe with this little information you can solve you issues.
    Hope it helps

    yes, I adjusted the truss rod before I tried to correct the intonation.


    What I want to know if there it is possible to do this task with the kemper tuner.
    It will be perfect, if somebody with a professionell tuner can tell me how accurate the kpa respond is for that.


    The only difference when i move the saddles is that i have to retune my flagolett tone (and open string) but the tune difference of the flagolett tone and fretted tone stays the same.
    I will give tomorrow another try.


    What do you guys do measure with your guitars?

    Edited once, last by kamin21 ().

    Quote from kamin21

    tell me how accurate the kpa respond is for that


    Why would you doubt the accuracy of the tuner? It's the tuner in an expensive piece of equipment who's primary input is guitar. If anything, you'd expect it to be optimised for guitar. I'm not saying it is; I'm just trying to get across the point that I think it'd be safe to assume that it's 100% accurate.

    I am not expert, in most tutorial they advice to use such tools.


    I guess it will work with the kpa. I measured the distance between the fret and the downside of the low e-string on first and last fret and there is a huge difference.


    1 fret: 0.25 mm
    21 fret: 1.75 mm


    This is not normal right? The fretboard should be nearly parallel to the strings.


    The difference is (I guess) much too big. I guess i have to shim my guitar, god thanks it is a bolt on neck.

    I use/used the kpa tuner to set up my earvana equipped guitar(s) accurate enough in my opinion ...the saddles should be pretty much in a straight line ...(they are on mine and I believe this is mentioned on the website ..?)

    Any good tuner is perfectly fine for setting intonation. The Kemper's tuner is a good tuner.


    On a Tune-o-matic bridge, you can get a bit of extra intonation range by removing the saddle and turning it around. Can't do that with a Hannes bridge, obviously, and it doesn't even look like there's very much adjustment range to begin with.


    What scale length, tuning, and string gauges are you using?

    Do not adjust your truss rod unless you are absolutely confident that you can do this without seriously screwing up your guitar! It should be the very last thing you play with in any setup.


    First stop - do you have fresh strings on? If not, then change them first. Next for actual guitar changes . Hit the bridge saddles first, then if that fails, flip the bridge around if it's a the tune-o-matic style bridge, if that still fails you may need to adjust the action on the guitar and raise/lower the bridge itself (and don't forget to adjust the tailpiece too so you don't change the tension too much). If you're using a tremelo arm then you may need to adjust the tension on the bridge itself to allow the bridge as a whole to rock forward or back slightly.


    The truss rod controls the curvature of your neck, not the length! It's purpose is to counterbalance the tension caused by the strings on the neck, if you fuck up you can warp the neck or twist resulting in at best fret-buzz at certain points, at worst a completely screwed up guitar that may not be salvageable even by a good luthier.


    Your aim when doing truss rod adjustment is one thing - to create a perfectly even ever so slight curve to the neck so that fretting does not result in fret buzz at any point. You would do this for instance to compensate against either heavy handed bridge adjustments or changing of string gauges that a guitarist may have done that may have caused changes in string tension. It is not the tool to adjust intonation with (this is what the bridge saddles are for)!

    I have very expensive Peterson strobe tuner which is as accurate as tuners go and Kemper built in tuner is just a bit less accurate than this, mainly because of the display. So yes, you can set the intonation up with Kemper tuner just fine.


    On the other note, if you aren't a gorilla, truss rod should be the very first thing you adjust on your guitar, chances of screwing it up are next to zero if you don't force anything.

    Quote from Per

    Do not adjust your truss rod unless you are absolutely confident that you can do this without seriously screwing up your guitar! It should be the very last thing you play with in any setup.


    I disagree with. Once fitted with new strings, it's one of the first things I'd do when doing a full set-up and definitely before intonating. Adjusting the truss rod is about setting the desired amount of relief to the neck and changing this will have a knock on effect to the action, which will have a knock on effect to the intonation. Adjusting a truss rod is very simple, if


    a) you have the correct tool,
    b) the guitar has ever been set up before,
    c) you work in small movements,
    d) you have an understanding as to what a truss rod does.


    To the OP: Yes, I believe the Kemper tuner will work fine for intonating a guitar. I have used many different tuners for this purpose and the Kemper compares well to all of them. You are comparing the 12th fret harmonic to the 12th fret fretted note aren't you? Make sure that you're adjusting the bridge with a slackened string and that the saddle is fully settled into position. For example, on many Strat/PRS type trem/bridges, if you shorten the string length with the intonation adjusting screw, the saddle may not fully move that way if there is any pressure from the string. Also make sure that you are using the correct finger pressure upon the fretboard for the fretted note and aren't pushing it sharp (easily done if working with the guitar on a bench).


    This doesn't seem right, can you post a closeup picture of the bridge and how it sits on the body or in the body?

    Guys, thx for the input
    millstudios: Whats your difference about fretted note and flagoulett note in percentage on your guitars? (12. fret)
    Per: Yes I did some setups on my own before, with an increasing learning curve. I know the basics. The strings are 2 days old.


    I know how the truss should be adjusted, I read some books and ofc watched all videos of FruduaTv (neck 10x faster is a awesome tip btw) and many of WillsEasyGuitar.
    I use a metal string action ruler for measurement. The neck is very straight with light relief.



    low E string:
    1. fret 0,5 mm
    12 fret 1,25 mm
    21 fret 1,75 mm


    I press only slightly on my frets for the intonation process, only hard enough to get the tone.
    I am still thinking about a shim, because it would make sense to me. If the strings are higher than normal I would have to press much more down, which is also sharpens the tone.
    [Blocked Image: https://www.dropbox.com/s/maztsh0dwz1q8nj/shimpng.png?dl=0]https://www.dropbox.com/s/maztsh0dwz1q8nj/shimpng.png?dl=0

    Edited once, last by kamin21 ().