Updated algorithm for more accurate Profiles !

  • I have some Amps where the Kemper struggles with accurate Profiles - bass and lowend is mushy and over the top .


    I wish that i can profile these amps with good accuracy -

    An updated algorythm or perhaps a match eq in the refine mode is an option to get closer ?


    Kemper is a great unit -- but profiling has to be much more simple with awesome results , no matter what amp, setting or pedal is used ;-)


    Thx .... that is what i wish for Christmas





    Please

  • Just my noob opinion:


    Sometimes when you profile, you should use a less is more approach. You may get better results with distortion and bass when you set it where you like then back it off about 10-20%.


    If the profile is made with too much bass, it may be hard to pull it out. It is easier to put it back in with some EQ in the profile. The Kemper also seems to have a hard time dealing with bass. Like the bass is compressed. So heavy bass profiles may sound dead. Use less then add to perfection after.


    Another thing to do is turn the definition UP for boomy or muddy profiles. The definition control is the boomy/resonance type adjustment. It pulls the bass out before the amplifier so the bass does not get amplified/distorted as much.

    Low = Bassy Fender type sound

    High = Tight bottom end for Metal etc.


    Distortion goes the same way. Too much may blur the profile or make the frequency response weird. Its better to use less then add a little with the gain knob, pure boost, compressor, or dist pedal.

  • Looks like you are getting some good advice. I will try to add to that.


    If you are getting too much bass, either roll that back on the amp or raise the high end on it to compensate for that. I saw a recent video of MBritt doing a profile of a boutique amp and the mentioned doing this occasionally to give him more headroom in the profile.


    You didn't mention if you are doing a direct profile or putting a mic in front of a speaker. If you are using a mic on a speaker, try moving the mic around a bit. This follows the same rules as putting a mic in front of a speaker for live sound or recording. If you are getting too much bass move the mic closer to the center of the speaker. It may not take much movement to get what you are looking for. Try it at about 1 inch movements at a time. You may be getting some proximity effect with the mic too. You can try pulling it back a little bit to see if that helps. Another thing is to try another mic if you have one. If you are doing a direct profile the IR you use will have a pretty big effect on the sound. That is another conversation.

  • Although these are some good advice, I second thenorth on that one.


    I love the kemper it’s amazing and still my favorite piece of gear! But if i had to wish for an update, instead of new features I personally would prefer a little improvement on the profiling process.


    cheers!

  • Although these are some good advice, I second thenorth on that one.


    I love the kemper it’s amazing and still my favorite piece of gear! But if i had to wish for an update, instead of new features I personally would prefer a little improvement on the profiling process.


    cheers!


    Don't under estimate microphone placement. It is a huge factor in live and recording tones when using a real amp with a microphone in front of the speaker. The profiling algorithm can only pickup what is happening at the source. It can't create an "amp in the room" sound that you hear when setting in the room while playing through the amp. This seems to be one thing that throws some people off.

  • Yes I completely agree! But I’m very used to the sound of a mic’ed/recorded amp, and am therefore comparing only the recorded signals on my monitors. The result is amazing but there’s definitely room for improvement (imho)


    Cheers!

  • DonPetersen

    Changed the title of the thread from “Updated Algorythm for more accurate Profiles !” to “Updated algorithm for more accurate Profiles !”.
  • But if i had to wish for an update, instead of new features I personally would prefer a little improvement on the profiling process.

    I agree the process could be a little more in depth. It is made simple for good reason but an ADVANCED option would be great.


    I would like to know more about the REFINE option as well. It seems unclear to just sit and play chords? How loud? Hard picking? Dissonant? Palm Mutes? Without knowing what it is really doing you cant adjust your playing to get a better result.


    I would like to see VU meters, gain adjustments, and possibly a spectrum analyzer on the LCD screen to get the gain/freq in the best place. Britt has stated (paraphrasing here) he knows he got the profile right when it creates settings close to the defaults in the amp section. As of late I have been using Goldwave (my personal fav) to see a spectrum analyzer view but a better analyzer on the Kemper would be great to help see big resonances etc.

  • what amp(s) are we talking about?

    have you tried reducing the volume of the amp?
    have you refined the Profile?

    The amps are Peavey Ultra + , Victory Kraken and an old Ampeg . On the Peavey i did a mod to bypass the internal noisegate , but the profiles are about 75% close to the source . The bass frequency pumps up every time when i refine the profile - i did a lot of different techniques , but nothing helped .When I profiled with a Lowcut n and 80 hertz , the profiles went into a thin and lifeless character .

  • I’d recommend putting the real amp in another room, micing, and isolating as much as possible, hearing what it sounds like in the same monitoring system you will be evaluating your profiles with. Otherwise the comparison is apples and oranges between your real amp and the subsequent profile. You need to know what your amp sounds like through your monitoring system mic’d up. If you don’t like that sound, you won’t like the sound of the profile.

  • A closet works well as a temporary iso booth for your amp. Just don't have any pictures hanging on the wall.

    The more you find what Kemper can do then the harder you try to find what it cannot do -- like make a good cup of Frappuccino.

  • since completely authentic results already can be achieved, it's really more about the profiling setup (complete separation from the cabinet to be able to compare the mic'ed sound to the Profile) and possibly refining

    yep.


    So kemper can be authentic if you have your own studio, a sound engineer and 10k of amps….


    i know it’s a little bit provocative but that’s not what the kemper is selling and this video represent 0,5% of the kemper users, even with those (like me) who are professional players.

    I just want to say that it’s time for a kemper 2 that will eliminate at least the problem of the guitar used in profiling.


    Make the kemper send a signal from the kemper to the amp that really profile amp and cab (or amp itself) and not making the profiles.
    not an engineer but could be great to really profile the amp and not the player of the amp.

  • So kemper can be authentic if you have your own studio, a sound engineer and 10k of amps….

    Shit in, shit out. The fact that you are a professional guitar player doesn't make you a professional audio engineer.

    Don't complain but instead enjoy the fact that plenty of audio engineers with experience, knowledge and practice share their work for much less than their hourly rate (and regardless of the price of their equipment).

    If you think there's shortcuts to great sound, well, just as many shortcuts as for a guitar beginner to a master virtuoso. ;)

  • I just want to say that it’s time for a kemper 2 that will eliminate at least the problem of the guitar used in profiling.


    Make the kemper send a signal from the kemper to the amp that really profile amp and cab (or amp itself) and not making the profiles……….



    ………could be great to really profile the amp and not the player of the amp.

    I believe this is a common but fundamental misconception about profiling and refining. Even CK has stated several times that the guitar doesn’t affect the profiling or refining process. In effect the guitar is doing exactly the job you are asking; simply sending a signal for the Kemper to compare against. It isn’t the guitar or player that is being compared simply the difference between the two signals. In the video above Guido is basically fining the aspects of the sound that are a bit off and sending a suitable signal which accentuates that aspect to let the Kemper compare and adjust. The choice of guitar has minimal influence (at most).


    As for what Kemper are selling, I don’t think they ever advertised or suggested that anybody with little or no engineering experience can magically create pro engineer results.

  • One of my guitarist friends just told me that he blew capacitors on both of his high end high gain tube amps because he was running them too hot with his power attenuator. And he also needs all new tubes. So maybe for the most accuracy, an updated algorithm will have a tube life indicator, and make your KPA completely stop working unless you Venmo $300 to Kemper for a simulated retube and bias job. But they could easily come back and ask for $400 more to virtually replace the circuit board with the blown caps. And it could also be completely random. Like maybe the tube life indicator says 87%, but then one of your tubes goes microphonic randomly. Venmo Kemper another $80 for a new tube. ?

  • I agree. Kemper is great but can be improved especially with the mids.

    This is more the request that is need if there is room to improve. But i think to subjective. I dont know if this is actual limitation or only in the ear of the user. But if you want Kemper team to look at this. Give them objective data and not only what you think you hear.


    For example a problem statement such as this.

    "The profile created by sound engineer under optimal condition. The profile analyze at 95% accurate to the original amp signal chain recording.

    Attach example of spectrum analysis of the original amp signal chain and the Kemper profile signal output. The chart show a missing high mid frequency when the profile is compare to the original amp."

    Then if the example is validate by Kemper team they will decide if 95% is ok. Or if they want to improve this.

    Again this is only example. I have no idea if the mid can be improve. The profile sound perfect to me. :)

  • Just the same as recording. You can get reasonable results recording with your phone and a cheap mic.


    Up against a professional studio? Forget it. You’ll hear a major difference.


    So it is here.


    Kemper isn’t saying - and never has said - that getting a *good* profile is easy. It’s a pro-level piece of kit. Requiring good technique. Yeah….you can not be a pro and use it. But to profile sounds really well? Well enough to charge money and give value?


    That’s the definition of a pro.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Edited once, last by Ruefus ().