this is a great idea how to share your profile knowledge and experiences and keep the info together. like it! ty
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Sounds like a great idea.
Looking forward for more blog posts. 
Interesting blog. But please don't stop sharing your knowledge here... 
Interesting blog. But please don't stop sharing your knowledge here...
Oh, I love this place and will still be around. Like I said, just wanted to keep all my thoughts together in one place. Plus I haven't shared anything yet that I haven't here. It's just going to be easier to add to there and keep track.
Nice idea. Looking forward to seeing it fill up.
Great idea. Should shape up nicely.
Bookmarked, thanks for sharing!
Interesting blog. But please don't stop sharing your knowledge here...
+1
I don't think we need a lot of new forums or Facebook pages - I share all Soundside news here.
hi.
while it is of course absolutely up to you to write whatever you want in your blog, I'm afraid that your choice of words might be a little unfortunate and could propel a few misconceptions about the Profiler/profiling process:
"The more bleed, the less accurate what you're hearing is going to be."
not quite right, since the accuracy of the profiling process isn't the issue - it's just that the user is monitoring the wrong (amp in the room) signal, when he should be listening to what the mic hears.
"And that's why I think most people who profile with the Kemper aren't happy with the results."
actually, the vast majority of users is very happy with the results - interestingly enough, this is especially true for professionals (with access to a control and recording room and micing experience).
just my 2 cents
"And that's why I think most people who profile with the Kemper aren't happy with the results."
actually, the vast majority of users is very happy with the results - interestingly enough, this is especially true for professionals (with access to a control and recording room and micing experience).
+1. Pretty much all my friends and colleagues who work and profile with the kemper are more than just happy with their profiling results - even without having access to a sperate recording and mixing room! But maybe thats because they listen to the mic-signal instead of the amp-room-sound
When I profile at home, there is definite bleed from the amp if it's in the room. The boomier amp does not come through with an SM57. But it does come through the headphones I use to profile. Hence I am fooled into thinking the profile has bottom end it does not, due to the bleed. This is not a problem for a mix ready profile I just obtained, which is true to the same recorded amp for tracking. But if I'm using that profile to play in Headphones or Live, I want more bottom end to approximate the actual "amp in the room" as they say, hence I need more EQ carving to effect that. The Kemper can do it. However, IF the bleed gets in the way of recognizing a poor microphone placement, or a phasing issue if you use 2 or more mics, then okstrat is spot on. Been there, done that.
A side issue not talked about much is how much the room affects your profile refining or tweaking that will not replicate the same way on another persons monitoring system on playback of the same profile. To the Don's out there, I'm talking about the user of the KPA tweaking parameters, not the KPA's internal algorithms for "refining".
In my experience these yield poor profiles:
1) Inexperienced Ears (either in Microphone Placement or EQ carving afterwards of the profile)
2) Simple setups (direct SM57 vs 2 Mics through quality preamp signal chains. This is a phenomena of the more professional competition overtaking the average profiler)
3) Low quality monitors, either headphones or speakers, low quality pickups (both fool your ears and sound drastically different on good gear, compensated on poorer gear)
Also, my initial experience was plagued with phasing issues when using 2 microphones.
Addressing okstrat's assertion that most don't like their profiles, perhaps what he means is most don't like the other persons profiles on the exchange. Counting what I actually keep off the Free Exchange, I use exactly 0.8% of the free stuff from average users on my KPA. That means 99% of the 4000+ profiles freely available aren't good enough to make my Lunchbox. Is it because they suck? Not entirely. It's more because the stiff competition from commercial profilers like Andy, Armin, Pete, Gundy, etc render them less desirable.
+1. Pretty much all my friends and colleagues who work and profile with the kemper are more than just happy with their profiling results - even without having access to a sperate recording and mixing room! But maybe thats because they listen to the mic-signal instead of the amp-room-sound
Sorry, my semantics were a bit off - but I don't think most most people who profile the first time or times out are happy with the results. I know I wasn't and my 'success rate' went WAY higher when I was able to isolate the speaker cab from the Kemper monitors. Sure I had some profiles that came out good, but my percentage rate of useable/good profiles were low at first. I blame most of that on not being able to hear the monitored sound well.
If you're profiling an amp at a good volume in the same room as the kemper, how are you guys keeping the bleed from affecting what you hear? I'm not saying it's impossible to get good profiles in the same room, but if you can't hear the monitored sound of your miked amp very well, you're at a huge disadvantage because that live amp is going to be giving you a false sense of what the profile is going to sound like.
Display MoreWhen I profile at home, there is definite bleed from the amp if it's in the room. The boomier amp does not come through with an SM57. But it does come through the headphones I use to profile. Hence I am fooled into thinking the profile has bottom end it does not, due to the bleed. This is not a problem for a mix ready profile I just obtained, which is true to the same recorded amp for tracking. But if I'm using that profile to play in Headphones or Live, I want more bottom end to approximate the actual "amp in the room" as they say, hence I need more EQ carving to effect that. The Kemper can do it. However, IF the bleed gets in the way of recognizing a poor microphone placement, or a phasing issue if you use 2 or more mics, then okstrat is spot on. Been there, done that.
A side issue not talked about much is how much the room affects your profile refining or tweaking that will not replicate the same way on another persons monitoring system on playback of the same profile. To the Don's out there, I'm talking about the user of the KPA tweaking parameters, not the KPA's internal algorithms for "refining".
In my experience these yield poor profiles:
1) Inexperienced Ears (either in Microphone Placement or EQ carving afterwards of the profile)
2) Simple setups (direct SM57 vs 2 Mics through quality preamp signal chains. This is a phenomena of the more professional competition overtaking the average profiler)
3) Low quality monitors, either headphones or speakers, low quality pickups (both fool your ears and sound drastically different on good gear, compensated on poorer gear)
Also, my initial experience was plagued with phasing issues when using 2 microphones.
Addressing okstrat's assertion that most don't like their profiles, perhaps what he means is most don't like the other persons profiles on the exchange. Counting what I actually keep off the Free Exchange, I use exactly 0.8% of the free stuff from average users on my KPA. That means 99% of the 4000+ profiles freely available aren't good enough to make my Lunchbox. Is it because they suck? Not entirely. It's more because the stiff competition from commercial profilers like Andy, Armin, Pete, Gundy, etc render them less desirable.
I should have clarified - most don't like the first profiles they do, and if they stick with it they tend to be rewarded with better results. And I don't think it's impossible to get a good profile in seperate rooms, it's just you can hear so much better - and I also need to clarify, I like profiling my amps at LOUD levels - I want to speakers to do some work and the tubes to heat up. Especially on older Marshalls, if you don't crank them up and make the speaker cab work a bit it's hard to get (in my opinion) a good tone. Modern amps aren't as fussy in my opinion in this regard - a mesa or other modern amp with a lot of preamp gain doesn't really need to slam the cabinet as much as an old Marshall that has to have every bit of gain it can scrounge up.
The other thing about profiling in a different room is you can monitor your profiling session with the speakers/monitors you are going to use with your kemper, whether it's a floor monitor for stage use, a 4x12 cab and power amp, or what I use for most of mine - a set of KRK VXT6s (or other good quality studio monitors). SInce I use the KRKs when I record, I can tell pretty quickly if I'm going to like the sound of the amp miked up through the Kemper's monitor setup before I commit to profiling it. Measure twice, cut once as my dad used to say!
Display Morehi.
while it is of course absolutely up to you to write whatever you want in your blog, I'm afraid that your choice of words might be a little unfortunate and could propel a few misconceptions about the Profiler/profiling process:
"The more bleed, the less accurate what you're hearing is going to be."
not quite right, since the accuracy of the profiling process isn't the issue - it's just that the user is monitoring the wrong (amp in the room) signal, when he should be listening to what the mic hears.
"And that's why I think most people who profile with the Kemper aren't happy with the results."
actually, the vast majority of users is very happy with the results - interestingly enough, this is especially true for professionals (with access to a control and recording room and micing experience).
just my 2 cents
Hi Don, I think we agree we're just looking at this a little differently. If I can't hear what my kemper is giving me under the reference amp setting, due to bleed, how can I get a good sounding profile? It's like throwing a dart in the dark - it might hit something, but you aren't really aiming.
Totally right on the second one, I should clarify and I will on the blog about people not liking their early or first efforts. I sure as heck didn't, I lucked into good sounding profiles but had a horrible success rate because I didn't have a whole lot of good info to go on. People here and on other boards were saying how you could just toss a mic in front of a cab and it was easy. It's not.
By the way, one thing that is a total constant in my profiling adventures is whatever I put into the kemper, it comes back out in a saved profile. That's why I stress so much the value of hearing your Reference amp without bleed.
+1
I don't think we need a lot of new forums or Facebook pages - I share all Soundside news here.
I personally like having the blog, I can always still share and post here. Having it on the blog though keeps me from repeating myself unintentionally.
for dual mic phase issues, are most people manually adjusting the relative mic distances to fix this, or are you just routing to a DAW then adding delay to 1 of the mics until you sync them? I have used Voxengo Sound Delay to phase align different audio sources before, and it seemed much quicker and more precise than trying to adjust mics.
for dual mic phase issues, are most people manually adjusting the relative mic distances to fix this, or are you just routing to a DAW then adding delay to 1 of the mics until you sync them? I have used Voxengo Sound Delay to phase align different audio sources before, and it seemed much quicker and more precise than trying to adjust mics.
I think I read this in one of Bobby Owsinski's books, I thought it's good advice:
In a dual mic setup, switch one mic out-of-phase and try to create the thinnest, least-amount-of-bass tone possible - then switch the phase back to normal.
I think I read this in one of Bobby Owsinski's books, I thought it's good advice:
In a dual mic setup, switch one mic out-of-phase and try to create the thinnest, least-amount-of-bass tone possible - then switch the phase back to normal.
very cool!
