So I bought an Axe Fx Ax8 and I have been profiling my preset as I make them...

You may have the most brilliant idea this Feb 2016

Buy the AX8, profile presets that translate well, sell them for $5, then sell the AX8 for MORE than you bought it for since there is a looong waiting list!

lol

Only because there are so many parameters doesn't mean you have to use them?

Quote from deadpan

With first hand experience of the Axe I don't believe the quality is less than Kemper. Just different. One can use all of these controls to find their perfect tone or you could rely on other profilers to do it. Either way both can and will get amazing tones.

Yeah, my remark was definitely tongue-in-cheek, deadpan.

I've no doubt that the tweakability, when exploited by competent propellorhead guitarists, would allow the creation of excellent, unique tones.

Tongue-in-cheek 'though it may have been, I still believe I had a point. I said, after all, that quantity (of parameters) doesn't buy authenticity; I was referring specifically to the accuracy of real-world-rig approximations. IMHO, nothing comes close to the Kemper's ability in this area.

So, in essence, I see the KPA as the ultimate copycat, and the Axe as perhaps the ultimate unique-sound-creation tool. I appreciate your perspective, deadpan, and I think I agree with it.

A tweaker's dream.

If you have the know how of the unit, and you got the patience and time to spare the Axe can sound as good as everything out there.I have no doubt in that(mainly beacuse i have some experience with the the Axe II).

For me il admit it im very lazy, and the due to the plug and play phisolophy behind the Kemper unit i get a more a immediate satisfaction.
Sure i sometimes tweak, but only the effects part of the unit (and i don't waste much time).

Ps: I also want to try the Atomic amplifire, if i find a second hand one for a nice price i might buy it.

Im still in the process of refining my last round of pod hd profiles. They actually sound much better in the kemper, once i can fatten em up by lowering Definition then pre eq'ing them far more precisely than i could in the pod. But yeah its crazy to hear how accurate the profiling is. And its good to know that even though the kemper is simple to use, theres a lot of depth to any profile and ive found you can often tweak to get better tones that the original device could produce - of course thats more the case for the pod than for real high end rigs with studio recording gear

Quote from deadpan

So true Dan. One could use the Ax8 as is with only the hardware controls. There are some good sounds this way but maybe not exactly Kemper good for me, for some they may be better. For me the benefit comes with finding each individuals ideal tone, having many options the possibility for this is greater. It's not easy and is even easier to get bad results from tweaking.

Absolutely, I have the AX8 incoming as well ... I like to tweak Wish Kemper would come out with a Floor Unit.

If you like to tweak so much, how will you do this with a floor unit, mDan? Just curious.

My back hurt for between 2 and 3 years from tweaking the POD HD, and that was after using it on the living-room table, sitting next to it with a fully-adjustable swivel chair on wheels and employing the looper for phrase playback for all tweaking.

Quote from deadpan

No doubt we agree. I love the Kemper. The more I profile the Axe the more I learn about refining and just how amazingly accurate the Kemper can be. I have profiled my actual amps before but always had the amp in the same room with me. With the Axe I can directly compare the Axe to the profile without the amp sound in the room. Really makes all the difference, I can literally hear the profile change as I refine.

Awesome, man!

You touched on something I've been meaning to say for quite some time:
When Chapman et al say they can pick their "real" amps whilst profiling (usually these guys are only playing in the studio whilst others do the work), even after refinement and tweaking, I'm inclined to think that the sound of the room and its interactions with the captured amp sound is the give-away. Sure, the level of the room sound will be low in a close-micing situation, but the Kemper's Profile, in contrast to this, is completely dry for all intents and purposes. It wouldn't take a set of golden ears to pick the difference.

Your Axe and Bobbo's POD HD situations, on the other hand, level the playing field and theoretically are more conducive to precise matching of the two sources. More power to ya!

Agreed, deadpan!

In these situations the Kemper's starting point is (theoretically, as long as you can tweak with an ear!) one of tonal beauty. I think this especially would benefit something like a POD, which may sound sub-par except for that "sweet spot". Kemper takes the sweet spot, and you're tweaking from (Kemper's extrapolating the data from) that point. Perfect.

Agreed on your second point too. For me, the M Britt formula is to add roughly "1" to the treble and subtract 1 from the bass. Done. By listening to the source Profile you'd expect to have to add and subtract more than that, but the Kemper Tone Stack is so powerful and yet precise, what with its +/- 0.1 increments.

I too look forward to hearing Bobbo's next round.

Quote from Monkey_Man

If you like to tweak so much, how will you do this with a floor unit, mDan?

The editor is excellent!
Too bad the AX8 doesnt send MIDI CC (i think). Would be nice to use it 4CM with the Kemper... best of both world. But I guess that's what the FX8 is for

Kiss my Kemper you turn coat!! Joking

How does stacking 2 amps ,sound better???? Thats one thing we cant do on the kemper compared to the AXE

Ash

Well, I s'pose it sounds taller, Ash.

Not for me as it complicates mixing. Besides, I like my sounds petite and curvy.

Quote from mDan

The editor is excellent!

Ah... thank you, mDan.

I know an FXII owner who profiles the Kemper and he publicly says the Kemper can't profile the AXE and that even Kemper in their manual admits it can't profile a modeler.

I had the ULTRA and profiled it, the 11R, a Roland Micro Cube, and I can tell you, IT CAN. The only issue is a lot of the AXE presets are dripping with multiple effects and the KPA effects are not exactly the same, so you have to tweak them to approximate the FXII and even then you won't always get exact results.

But profiling the AMP block is not the same as matching FX, so I think he's talking about the whole thing together. Profiling isn't about or capable of reverb, flange, chorus, etc. Or else it would be $5,000 (cause it could profile all pedals)

When I've tweaked I can get better sounds form the Kemper of a profiled modeler that is weak on tone. What DID surprise me was how good the Micro Cube profiles. That is a crappy 4" amp using 6 AAA batteries, right? But I never did, and should have, hooked it up to a proper large 12" or 15". The Kemper profile of one of it's models is in my FAV list it's so good. So even these crappy little practice amps are capable of great tone IF you match them to a properly good speaker!

Of course, with the Kemper, I'm using an external amp and cabinet. You wouldn't do that with a practice amp, so the tiger inside is well hidden. I wonder if something like the VG8 is any good. You never hear about it on TGP.

I even posted on TGP one of my ULTRA profiles side by side with the ULTRA clip for all the fanboy's to ridicule and they didn't. It was obvious you couldn't tell the difference.

And I even said which was which. I didn't turn it into a test, practically put in people's hands to claim they could hear the difference.

In the end, it's work flow that chooses the modeler for you. If you like ease of interface and authenticity that can expand tones at will, there's only 1 product on the market.

I get people wanting the KPA to be a foot controller all in one. I suppose if Kemper DID create a version that was built into the chip so it booted in less than 5 seconds and was on the floor, it would be a dream for some. But I would still want something hip height to twiddle the knobs with.

But I guess the thing now is to bluetooth to your smartphone or iPad, so yeah, the KPA II would be in my mind a floor unit.

Even better would be if it had built-in wireless for you guitar! Ok, sorry to derail. Back to message!

Well i can say sometimes my pod profiles match and sometimes theyre off depending on the patch. The more the Pod profile sounds like a real rig, the better the kemper match. But when the pod has weird volume drops on certain notes and other bogus crap because the amp DEPs make the model venture into fantasyland (or broken amp land), then yea the kemper doesnt capture that and the profile usually just sounds like a crappy amp. Im 100% fine with that.