How are you actually profiling your amp sound?

    This question has been bothering me for a while. I find many, if not most, profiles are dark and muddy (clean amp profiles excluded). This makes me wonder if profilers are just practicing with their amp and say, "I like that sound", and then just hook up a mic to it and profile it. I understand that low frequencies on a guitar are satisfying when no mix is playing along to it but that makes it pretty hard to fit into a mix. It just seems that profiling outside the mix is a waste of time unless you only play for yourself.


    I personally would like to only have profiles that were made along with the mix. It seems like there are only a few of those. Or maybe I am doing something completely wrong. I depend heavily on the Treble boost or to raise the high frequencies of OD/Dist stomps.


    Does anyone know how most profiles are made? In the mix or outside the mix? Or am I doing it wrong? Wouldn't profiling in a mix be the preferred way?

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Quote from BayouTexan

    Does anyone know how most profiles are made? In the mix or outside the mix? Or am I doing it wrong? Wouldn't profiling in a mix be the preferred way?

    Definitely outside the mix. Some people though have a good ear for how to record an amp for a given song, which is a different process.

    But even so, when making profiles you don't know which songs the profiles will be used for - which arrangement? Which other instruments? What will the bass sound be like? Will the drums (cymbals and hi-hat) be what should dominate the top end, or will the guitar?


    Apart from that there are of course the people who profile the amp sounds they like when playing without other instruments going on, as you say.

    As Michael_dk said, definitely outside the mix. It is no different than micing and recording a real amp in the old days. The engineer would mic a good overall sound capturing all the frequencies that make it sound great. It is easy to remove frequencies from a track but you can’t put in something that isn’t there in the first place. As you don’t know what the other instruments will sound like or how the overall mix will sound you need to leave a good overall base to work from.

    mic'ing a guitar cabinet is a bit of an art.
    some use multiple mics (ribbon + condenser is a popular choice) others can even get a great sound out of a single dynamic mic.

    Isolation is quite important, you have to be able to listen to only what the mic hears - using isolating headphones is one approach.

    Most guitar tones have too much low end and that's the first thing any mixer would address. I have a highpass and lowpass filter globally activated on my live-use PROFILER and the in-ear signal as well as the FOH signal is great.

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    It is no different than micing and recording a real amp in the old days.

    Well, the difference is that when micing and recording in the old days you knew what the rest of the instruments sounded like, which you don't when making profiles for others to use :)


    Quote from DonPetersen

    mic'ing a guitar cabinet is a bit of an art.
    some use multiple mics (ribbon + condenser is a popular choice) others can even get a great sound out of a single dynamic mic.

    ...And it's often a tradeoff, I think - for example, in order to get the top end "right" (for your tastes), maybe other frequencies are less than ideal. The best compromise is the one where it is possible to shape the sound towards the ideal afterwards without losing the character you're after.

    Quote from Michael_dk

    ...And it's often a tradeoff, I think - for example, in order to get the top end "right" (for your tastes), maybe other frequencies are less than ideal. The best compromise is the one where it is possible to shape the sound towards the ideal afterwards without losing the character you're after.

    in my mind, there is no 'ideal' sound.
    there is a tone that has the right amount of saturation. feels nice, works with my pickups and even with multiple guitars.
    since it's always in context, there are just too many variables to achieve an ideal sound.
    A bit of knowledge about mixing and production helps a lot and of course trusting your ears over any internet 'knowledge'.

    My main lead sound for example has too much Ionosphere reverb, if you listen to it in isolation, but with a full band going behind you, it's just right - plus it lead me towards more relaxed an melodic solos instead of playing way too many notes.

    Looking for an ideal will always lead you to chase something better out there, instead of concentrating on your playing IMHO YMMV

    Honestly, I am finding selecting the right profiles to fit in a mix as a bit of an art. It seems like the EQ is a necessity since there doesn't seem to be a plug-n-play profile I've come across. Just wondering if that is what's generally done. Is it okay to be dependent on EQing a profile afterwards or is there other ways to make a profile work that I am missing?

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Quote from BayouTexan

    Honestly, I am finding selecting the right profiles to fit in a mix as a bit of an art. It seems like the EQ is a necessity since there doesn't seem to be a plug-n-play profile I've come across. Just wondering if that is what's generally done. Is it okay to be dependent on EQing a profile afterwards or is there other ways to make a profile work that I am missing?

    for me, context and the Definition control are key :)

    Quote from BayouTexan

    Honestly, I am finding selecting the right profiles to fit in a mix as a bit of an art. It seems like the EQ is a necessity since there doesn't seem to be a plug-n-play profile I've come across. Just wondering if that is what's generally done. Is it okay to be dependent on EQing a profile afterwards or is there other ways to make a profile work that I am missing?

    Absolutely OK! Find a profile that gets you in the ballpark, and then adjust to the rest of the arrangement and instrumentation. The person doing the profile doesn't know the sound of your drums, bass, vocals, how they play together etc etc.. So if you can get by without mix-time adjustments you are a very lucky man :)

    I don't remember who it was but it was a well known metal producer/mix engineer said something like this: producers talk about recording guitars and without have to use EQ but end up using a lot of EQ to get the guitar sound the mix need. If you ever get your hands on commercial multitracks you will instantly hear that that guitars need some tweaks to get it right.

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau

    Like 1
    Quote from Wreckington

    You might check out Live Ready Sound profiles. They seem pretty bright to me but I have not used them live so cant speak to that.

    Thanks but I see no reason to buy profiles. They probably create the profile outside the mix too and I would still need to adjust them. There are thousands of free ones to choose from and I can make my own. The thing is, I'm not looking for another artist's tone. I'm looking for my own which is obviously making me do the extra work. :)

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Quote from Wreckington

    You might check out Live Ready Sound profiles. They seem pretty bright to me but I have not used them live so cant speak to that.

    Just because profiles are pretty bright doesn’t mean they are mix ready. That’s not how mixing work. A mix is a compromise of sounds and they all effect each other. Change something and it will effect everything else.

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau

    Like 4

    zen 😎

    A brace of Suhrs, a Charvel, a toaster, an Apollo twin, a Mac, and a DXR10

    I haven't had much luck using a dynamic mic straight in for the same reasons you complained about, but have had success using a condenser mic. It's too bad the Kemper doesn't have phantom power to make this easier, but I just go through a inexpensive mixer that has it. I can blend mics too but usually I just use a condenser that I like to use when recording guitars. I consider using a condenser mic a must for this reason.