Why not just a Kemper?

  • They've done a few modeller Rig Rundowns, but those tend to be mainly about guitars. The Kemper, Helix or Fractal section is usually very short, but that could be much more interesting.


    What about asking what the profiles are based on, how the patches are changed (pedalboard, or remote midi) and what about how they monitor the system.


    Many guitarists now go direct to FoH, so it should be better represented.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

  • This is a big topic because I think it also touches upon why people use pedals into a valve amp, the classic being a solid state drive pedal into a clean amp...


    I think there are many reasons as to why people don't switch AND use loads of pedals. Most people use pedals because a Valve amp won't do everything and hence are directly linked but I have the same question for people with Kempers, why do they need external gear?


    I think the main reasons are:


    1) Different combinations/functions not covered - lots of people talk about cascading gain structures etc. which you can't easily replicate. In addition things like the freqout pedal or complex looping...I struggle to understand why people need to use a Kemper for amps and Helix for effects and Axe for switching etc. BUT the flip side is no single unit is perfect. People want perfection...


    2) There is some "magic" with dedicated external gear. Whether this is real or perceived doesn't matter, perception is reality, so people will defend this to the death. Nuno recently commented that he uses a Rat pedal with no additional gain or tone because it adds a tightness...and went on to comment that no one else hears it. Is that real or perceived? Doesn't matter, he needs it so its real and so will see it as essential.


    3) Secret club/pedal snobbery - there is definitely something around " oh, I've discovered this pedal which is amazing...." - its either end end boutique from a maker that charges £00's that few people can afford or some old/unknown pedal that has been "reborn" like the Marshall bluesbreaker pedal. They were considered crap when I was growing up.... I think its human nature to feel like you know something others don't :)


    4) Pure G.A.S - The Kemper has killed my amp GAS but even I have succumbed to looking at a fly rig. I don't really need it but I want to buy something!


    There are many pro's using Kempers but I think few in pure isolation. Even though I love my Kemper, its main benefit is sound AND convenience. If I had 300 roadies to support my world tour, I'd probably have 30 valve amps set up every night because the original will always be "better" than a copy...


    I watched Guns'n'Roses gig at Glastonbury and, bearing in mind they were dirty/sleazy rock'n'rock plug and go type band ( Les Paul into Marshall), but even Slash changed his guitar almost every song....


    So yeah, it sort of makes perverse sense to me....

  • I'm always amazed when someone uses a 50w or 100w tube amp, that never gets anywhere close to tube overdrive, and then puts a TubeScreamer in front of it and remarks how great the amp is in overdrive. All you're hearing is the solid state TubeScreamer. If you can't push your tube amp to power tube overdrive - which means cranking the overall volume -- you aren't really getting the tone from the amp. For 99% of players, cranking any tube amp over about 20w doesn't happen because the volume is way too much.


    So, my love of Kemper is being able to have that output tube drive recreated at any volume. I have some amazing tube amps, but to get them to their sweet spot I need another arsenal of attenuators and re-amping devices.


    I also like the prior comment about not spending a lot of time tweaking a rig -- if it doesn't "speak to me" on first listen I move on. Kemper can be a black hole of tweaking into which you never emerge. I play live and don't record, so I just need a small handful of great rigs that work, without hours of futzing with the settings.

  • Secret club/pedal snobbery - there is definitely something around " oh, I've discovered this pedal which is amazing...." - its either end end boutique from a maker that charges £00's that few people can afford or some old/unknown pedal that has been "reborn" like the Marshall bluesbreaker pedal. They were considered crap when I was growing up.... I think its human nature to feel like you know something others don't :)

    Ever notice many pros always tout their "custom" this or that (making sure you know it's special and you can't have one). Nobody ever goes on about their Fender Hot rod Deluxe or something everyone can easily get, it's always something that you can't try for yourselves easily. I recall getting frowned upon because I still used an ADA MP1 around 1994. I had to beg to sell it for $75.00 because they weren't cool anymore, but as soon as they are near extinction and forgotten about for a period of time, they become awesome again, profiles are sold of them and sell for $500.00- $900.00! Same with JCM 800s. When they came out most players couldn't stand them unmodded and you could buy them any day of the week for under $400.00 . Now they are legendary and sell for 4X that. They still sound the same just like the "legendary" ADA MP1 does it's just now less people have them so it's something people say they have that you don't

  • I'm always amazed when someone uses a 50w or 100w tube amp, that never gets anywhere close to tube overdrive, and then puts a TubeScreamer in front of it and remarks how great the amp is in overdrive.

    That's what I was writing, many of them will bash "solid state" units and demand a tube amp but the tube amp isn't doing much more than amplifying their solid state transistor or IC chip sound. To me tube amps are more romantic and fun like flying a Bi Plane but when I want to get somewhere I'll take a jet.

  • My alltime guitarhero Mark Knopfler now currently uses Kemper live. But its realy fun to watch rigdowns on famous artists! If I had the mony and people rigging stuff for me I would have a gigantic rack and stereo cabinets soround me too!!

    but Kemper, DXR and in ear do it for me! the audience hear the same sound and tone as if it were a big rack with overprossesed sound! for me its more fun to experiment with amps and sounds, than staying locked to only one sound for 40 years!! But I have to admit the T.C. Electronics, Dyn Delay has bin my signature for 20 years! I have tryed to copy that o my Kemper

  • 2) There is some "magic" with dedicated external gear. Whether this is real or perceived doesn't matter, perception is reality, so people will defend this to the death. Nuno recently commented that he uses a Rat pedal with no additional gain or tone because it adds a tightness...and went on to comment that no one else hears it. Is that real or perceived? Doesn't matter, he needs it so its real and so will see it as essential.

    ...And even if it is just perceived and not reality - it's still worth it if it makes you more confident in your tone, because you will play better (I think this is probably already implied in what you wrote)

  • My alltime guitarhero Mark Knopfler now currently uses Kemper live.

    Last night I saw the "Money for nothing" rig in the legends pack and was having fun playing it. While playing it didn't seem perfect but listening back to the recording I did it's super close. I recall reading the story behind Mark's actual sound he used, it's not at all what I guessed.

  • In my long ago experience, I always liked the sound of overdrive and distortions pedals into a clean tube amp more than into a clean solid state amp, even if the cab was the same. Always seemed warmer, fuller, and less harsh to me. Also 50 watts tube was always louder than 50 SS or even 100 watts solid state. As far as the "latency" argument goes, I don't buy it. Plenty of guitarists with more traditional boards have several digital pedals with with AD-and DA conversion on the ins and outs.


    But choosing a trad set up over the digital options in 2023? The biggest reason for some is familiarity. Even if the end result is IEM's with backstage amps, there was always something tactile and "right" about getting an amp cranking with real pedals and then mic'ing vs. beginning and ending with the mic'd sound; until you get used to it. A lot of guitarists play the sorts of gigs where you show up and the assumption is you'll plug your pedal board into the mic'd house amp set clean, that all the bands share. At least that was a familiar experience for me years back; it's changed some as more guitarists have opted for direct options in recent years.


    The other reason is image. Most have only put just so many pedals through the paces. But having an analogue board ensures your "rig" at the very least looks unique; that you have thoughtfully and expertly chosen this unique combination of pedals. Using an all-in-one, robs you of this image no matter how good it is.

  • We're seeing more and more digital modelers in rig rundowns, from what I've seen. And I don't think Premier Guitar shies away from Kempers or any modelers at all when they pick artists. I mean look at Aaron Marshall from Intervals, he goes into great detail about his modeling setup (which changes a lot) including amps and effects and monitoring and everything.


    I can't speak to why artists use tubes and analog over digital devices, but one thing I like about Kemper is that it has more knobs than other modelers. I like the tactile interaction more than going through screens and pushing buttons and using a mouse on the computer. It could be some people really like having knobs and the interaction of these modular devices over more of a programming approach.

  • But having an analogue board ensures your "rig" at the very least looks unique; that you have thoughtfully and expertly chosen this unique combination of pedals.

    I had a mustang that had a very fast engine and drive train/suspension ( I worked in a speed shop). When I built it I painted it stock to look like nothing fancy. Stock ford valve covers and air cleaner. I would then proceed to smear cars in street races that had a chrome alternator, braided cables, fancy valve covers etc. The people I beat would go "Wow what have you got in there". I'd open my hood and go "Just a stock 302". Looks don't mean much when the bell rings.

  • I had a mustang that had a very fast engine and drive train/suspension ( I worked in a speed shop). When I built it I painted it stock to look like nothing fancy. Stock ford valve covers and air cleaner. I would then proceed to smear cars in street races that had a chrome alternator, braided cables, fancy valve covers etc. The people I beat would go "Wow what have you got in there". I'd open my hood and go "Just a stock 302". Looks don't mean much when the bell rings.

    That used be variation of the Factory Look. It looks like nothing important had changed. Except the only thing that *did* change were the important bits. :evil:


    A Sleeper works too.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • I had a mustang that had a very fast engine and drive train/suspension ( I worked in a speed shop). When I built it I painted it stock to look like nothing fancy. Stock ford valve covers and air cleaner. I would then proceed to smear cars in street races that had a chrome alternator, braided cables, fancy valve covers etc. The people I beat would go "Wow what have you got in there". I'd open my hood and go "Just a stock 302". Looks don't mean much when the bell rings.


    "If it don't run, chrome it" 8)


    Cheers !

    The adjective for metal is metallic. But not so for iron ... which is ironic.

  • "If it don't run, chrome it" 8)


    Cheers !

    Used to be with Harley Davidson's "If it sticks out....chrome it!" That it don't run was never a question. :)


    True story - I worked at a motorcycle dealer years ago. One of the parts guys had this sweet looking Sportster 1200 with what appeared to be every thing you could get out of the Screamin' Eagle catalog bolted on. It was as quick as one of those things got (which is to say....not very.)


    I took it *around the bock*....which was about 3 miles in that part of Ohio. Before I could get back to the shop......the gas cap vibrated off. $50 bucks worth of Milwaukee Chrome, gone.


    I was horrified I'd lost it. The owner said "Yeah.....2nd or 3rd one this year...." .....wait.....wut?!?

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • The Kemper has killed my amp GAS

    Boy, it stopped mine dead in its tracks. They began gathering dust literally the evening I got my Kemper. I waited a few months so get out of the 'honeymoon phase' (which has never ended, by the way) and proceeded to sell off most of my amps. Still have a mountain of pedals but those are a bigger pain to sell. May dump them as a lot.


    Of course, I then went on a guitar buying spree. Every sword cuts in both directions, I suppose.

  • Ever notice many pros always tout their "custom" this or that (making sure you know it's special and you can't have one). Nobody ever goes on about their Fender Hot rod Deluxe or something everyone can easily get, it's always something that you can't try for yourselves easily. I recall getting frowned upon because I still used an ADA MP1 around 1994. I had to beg to sell it for $75.00 because they weren't cool anymore, but as soon as they are near extinction and forgotten about for a period of time, they become awesome again, profiles are sold of them and sell for $500.00- $900.00! Same with JCM 800s. When they came out most players couldn't stand them unmodded and you could buy them any day of the week for under $400.00 . Now they are legendary and sell for 4X that. They still sound the same just like the "legendary" ADA MP1 does it's just now less people have them so it's something people say they have that you don't

    An ADA MP-1 Profile from Rig Exchange has been my go-to heavy rhythm sound for months now. What an incredibly tight, defined & brutal tone it has. 🤌

  • My personal Kemper does not sing like a tube amp

    Just checking, how are you listening to the Kemper? Like you do a "tube amp"? I'm asking because tonight I was having some fun with a bit of volume. My perfect setup so far at home is to have my Kemper direct to the board but have my favorite cab monitored as well. The Kemper mains go direct to board and my monitor speakers in front and my killer 1X12 behind me. I have to say, live cabinet matters. I had the cab turned way up to where it was singing feedback like crazy at the slightest and controllable touch. The volume had a huge effect on the direct to the board sound and it was like playing a cranked up amp in the room. Even though the live cab wasn't being recorded, the sound was making the guitar "sing" like "normal". I think that powerful volume touch control ability gets lost with tiny monitor speakers, IEMs and headphones. The bonus is when I play live, It doesn't sound foreign to me because I'm still listening to my 1x12. I've used just that same open back 1x12 on stages for audiences from 6,000 to 12,000. I didn't need anything else on stage and the sound support was ecstatic about my "low" stage volume. IMO A live cab is a must if you want "natural"

  • An ADA MP-1 Profile from Rig Exchange has been my go-to heavy rhythm sound for months now. What an incredibly tight, defined & brutal tone it has. 🤌

    Trust me when I say the actual units do not really sound like that "stock" and straight in. With gain on 10, it's a bit more than a JCM800 and to me sound a lot like one. I've had 2)MP1s and 1) MP2 used them for years and alone they are not "Brutal" If you spent $1,000.00 buying a real one you'll wish you would have saved your money and just used the Kemper profile.

  • Trust me when I say the actual units do not really sound like that "stock" and straight in. With gain on 10, it's a bit more than a JCM800 and to me sound a lot like one. I've had 2)MP1s and 1) MP2 used them for years and alone they are not "Brutal" If you spent $1,000.00 buying a real one you'll wish you would have saved your money and just used the Kemper profile.

    The one I use has an "EL34 Mod" or something done to it. The closest comparison in tone would be a Friedman BE. A lot of what I play is old school Thrash/Death Metal, and I must have tried 300+ Profiles...nothing really floored me...until the ADA. 🙂