Ahhh What's that? A New Kemper Model? Profiler Player

Quote from ggo_101

Hey all!

I recently got a HX one and also just ordered a new Kemper Player. The HX one can be both in front of an amplifier and in it's effects loop by using the 4 cable method.

The Kemper Player has no effects loop, but is it still possible to use the HX one in 4 cable method in order to place effects behind the amp (and in this case also the cab) and if so, is the way below the correct way to do it?

Guitar connected to the HX One in - L/mono => HX one Out - Right (send) to Kemper Player guitar input => Kemper Player L output to HX One Right (return) Input => HX One L (mono) Output to a DI box / cabinet / Audio interface, ...

Added is a screenshot of the HX one manual concerning 4 cable method.

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Yes!

Quote from Job Posthuma

Im trying to wrap my mind on wether the delays would work for me. I use “Andy timmonish” delays..2 delays, analog typ, modulated, and crossfeedback.

The manual suggests that all delays have generic parameters, which include crossfeedback.

But..the only “2 delays type” seems to be the “Two tap”…the one in my current Kemper doesn’t have cross feedback.

Does the “Player” include a delaytype that isn’t in my toaster?…or is the delay type I look for just not in the box atm?

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I've recently been doing the same with the dual delay using crossfeedback. That control works great for achieving that specific rhythm. But I will likely just use the Halo with the player instead of the internal delays. Or...... I may decide to forgo that setting altogether to use the player without a pedalboard. Either way I'm not "bestricken" or even grief struck in any way. Lols

Was curious if you are using the crossfeedback setting @ 10 or some other setting that works better? Thanks

Quote from gavinashun

In economics this is called "price discrimination."

Basically imagine you have 100 potential customers for this product.

One group of 50 (we'll call them Group A) will only pay $700 for it; and if it is only $700, they are ok with a more limited set of features.

Another group of 25 people (Group B) will buy it for $700 with more limited features, but *would* pay $1000 for it with expanded features.

Another group of 25 people (Group C) will only buy it with expanded features, and they would pay $1000 for that.

If you sell it with limited features for $700, Group A will buy and group B will buy, and you will make $52,500 (75*700)

If you sell it with expanded features for $700, all 100 will buy, and you will make $70,000 (100*700)

If you sell it with expanded features for $1000, only Group B and C will buy, and you will make $50,000 (50*1000)

But what if there was a way to sell it with limited features for $700 and expanded features for $1000?

Now all 100 will buy and you make $85,000 (Group A: 50*700, Group B & C: 50*1000).

DLC allowed for price discrimination which maximizes your revenue in many cases. Companies love price discrimination but in many cases it is either impossible or illegal (i.e. a company could maximize their revenue if they charged a rich person $50 for a box of cereal but a poor person $5, but you can't do that both logistically or legally). But in situations where they can do it, they often will do it.

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Yes, this is pretty much the story.

But there is another circumstance that brought us into this direction.

When you downsize a product, often downsizing the core does not save much cost, e.g. by finding a smaller processor.

If available at all, it would save a few bugs, but the additional efforts to run and maintain an established software and operating system on a smaller processor easily eat up the marginal cost savings, without creating any advantages for us or the user. No one wins.

You can see similar situations in the car industy, where three models with different power ratings use the same engine block and sometimes same displacement.

Electric cars will usually take the same electric motor for different power offerings, because total costs will increase by developing, certifying and manufacturing three different engine sizes, and gaining the opportunity for later over-the-air updates, so users can make a qualified decision about upgrading or not, while they are in the possession of the car already.

When we released the Profiler Head in the beginning, we had planned to have the power amp be a module that can be purchased later and seamlessly be inserted into the back of the Head, as we had anticipated that it is hard to decide on day one if you will ever make use extensive of the power amp.

Laws and certification rules prevented us from doing so, unfortunately.

It is more satisfying and a sustainable business to simply have a happy customer, rather than having to recommend: "Better take the powered version now, you never know what your needs are in the future".

The possibility for said upgrades came in a natural way to us, as described above,

And while it wasn't planned at first place, it might create a win-win situation.

We have the opportunity to offer the same enclosure with different power and different price, and our users have the freedom to decide for more power anytime after the purchase, when they have got familiar with the product.

Quote from Rayosytruenos

Or you can get a cheap phone or tablet.

For me, the Player purchase won't be "cheap", so adding a dedicated purchase on top of that won't be an option.

Thank you for your suggestion mate.

Quote from Ruefus

I have a 2011 Air and used this to great effect:

http://dosdude1.com/catalina/

Check compatibility, follow the tutorial and *poof*.

Works perfectly fine.

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Unfortunately it requires that I turn the GPU on my 2011 17" MacBook Pro off, as outlined in the notes. That machine is my music-and-movie centre in the living room, so not a good idea.

I require for various reasons that the OS on the desktop and laptop be the same, so that also destroys the idea I'm afraid.

Thank you for the suggestion Brother R.

Quote from Delinquent

I am assuming OS and rigs can be added via thumb drive. Old School

I'd be 100% down with that!

Quote from Monkey_Man

Thank you Timo; I was afraid of that.

This means that my "Player" purchase will have to wait 'til the big ol' Mac upgrade.

Bummer!

Monkey, you should be able to update your Mac all the way to Monterey, using Open Core Patcher.

Search for mrmackintosh on YouTube, he has step-by-step directions

Quote from Monkey_Man

Unfortunately it requires that I turn the GPU on my 2011 17" MacBook Pro off, as outlined in the notes. That machine is my music-and-movie centre in the living room, so not a good idea.

I require for various reasons that the OS on the desktop and laptop be the same, so that also destroys the idea I'm afraid.

Thank you for the suggestion Brother R.

NP. I totally get it.

FYI….I was able to find a newer Air on FB marketplace for $150. Cheaper options beyond a new Mac are out there. 👍

You should be able to do your 2011 MacBook as well

Quote from granthd

I've recently been doing the same with the dual delay using crossfeedback. That control works great for achieving that specific rhythm. But I will likely just use the Halo with the player instead of the internal delays. Or...... I may decide to forgo that setting altogether to use the player without a pedalboard. Either way I'm not "bestricken" or even grief struck in any way. Lols

Was curious if you are using the crossfeedback setting @ 10 or some other setting that works better? Thanks

I get close enough to the Halo (on my analog board) using the dual delay on the toaster, crossfeedback between 5 and 10 to taste

As far as I can tell, the Player atm doesn’t come with a delay that allows getting close, there’s no loop to incorporate the Halo pedal, so I’m afraid the Player isn’t for me.

I really anticipated on a 3 knob kemper unit hitting the market, and prefer to stick to one ecosystem…but the above plus absence of a global eq keeps a competitors 3 knob unit on my analogboard..and in my gigbag.

If the “complete enchilada” of efx would come available I’d probably go for it…so here’s a push from one potential buyer to make that happen If it’s written in stone that that will be the case…I wouldn’t mind confirmation that that would also include a global eq.

And while I’m at this lobby quest with personal preferences, I wouldn’t mind a poly octaver to kick one more pedal of my board

Maybe it's me but I still don't get all these discussion...there is a ton of guitarists out there that WANTS to use their own fx pedals with the Kemper (and a lot of people does already). With the head or the rack that required tu run 4 cables back an forth, with the Stage it needs a pedalboard the size of a small apartment. For these people the Player is just perfect. For me the value is to have a smaller unit for all the gigs where the Stage is an overkill (acoustic, small venues, blues/jazz ones) and at the same time a backup that doesn't change my base tones. I understand the wish of a lot of people here to have the full functionality for half the price, but that would be not only stupid but a commercial suicide for the company (we all want to keep the support and continuous updates on the big units, right?).

Quote from Job Posthuma

I get close enough to the Halo (on my analog board) using the dual delay on the toaster, crossfeedback between 5 and 10 to taste

As far as I can tell, the Player atm doesn’t come with a delay that allows getting close, there’s no loop to incorporate the Halo pedal, so I’m afraid the Player isn’t for me.

I really anticipated on a 3 knob kemper unit hitting the market, and prefer to stick to one ecosystem…but the above plus absence of a global eq keeps a competitors 3 knob unit on my analogboard..and in my gigbag.

If the “complete enchilada” of efx would come available I’d probably go for it…so here’s a push from one potential buyer to make that happen If it’s written in stone that that will be the case…I wouldn’t mind confirmation that that would also include a global eq.

And while I’m at this lobby quest with personal preferences, I wouldn’t mind a poly octaver to kick one more pedal of my board

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It seems that the Halo does not feature a second delay tap or a crossfeedback.

Possibly similar to our Single Delay?

Quote from ckemper

It seems that the Halo does not feature a second delay tap or a crossfeedback.

Possibly similar to our Single Delay?

Not sure it does in the parameters of the unit…but it sure does under the hood. It’s a dotted 8 + 1/4 delay, feeding back in oneanother. So single delay will not work in my mind…

It’s a populair delay, (Andy Timmons signature preset) maybe worth making a kemper version . The current dual delay can get very very close to my ears…at least good enough for me to ditch the Halo from my “analog board” if the Player can do that

Release the Player... then in 6-12 months release the additional features for free as enhancements just like the rest of the big boys (including  Kemper) currently do and keep building value in the Kemper platform.

It's a not an good idea to charge extra for updates to this device if you ask me, IF that is what Kemper actually intends to do in the future. Charging for feature enhancements puts Kemper hardware products into a totally different category IMO.

Quote from texhex

Release the Player... then in 6-12 months release the additional features for free as enhancements just like the rest of the big boys (including  Kemper) currently do and keep building value in the Kemper platform.

It's a not a good idea to charge extra for updates to this device if you ask me, IF that is what Kemper actually intends to do in the future. Charging for feature enhancements puts Kemper hardware products into a totally different category IMO.

Considering how vast majority of Kemper users only use their Kempers as ‘players’ the net result of upgrading the $700 Player to be practically equal to the rest of the Kempers it would probably destroy the company! Sales of the other units would drop dramatically.

Would you take a 50% pay cut and be able to pay your bills with the good will you harvest from being so nice?

It's not unprecedented to unlock additional features for an upcharge. Eventide did it with the H9, and it seemed to work for them. I wasn't crazy about their pricing scheme, but that's a different topic. If you don't need a hundred crazy effects it's nice to have the option NOT to pay for them.

It does help get the hardware in peoples' hands sooner when price point is the issue. I seriously considered the FM3 before I decided to save for the Kemper Stage, and if I'd have started with the Player I would probably gotten the full Profiler down the road.

If you want a full featured Profiler, you can buy it like everyone who has one did. Don't expect to get a full featured profiler for half the price. It's basic business practice 101.. Not hard to understand...

Congrats CK and team on another great product. The Kemper rack does everything (and more) than I'll ever need, especially with the continuing upgrades. My only worry has been what would happen if I broke it or it needed a service. The pedal is a far more affordable back up if the worst should happen.

Merry Christmas all.

Quote from Enchilada_Jones

Considering how vast majority of Kemper users only use their Kempers as ‘players’ the net result of upgrading the $700 Player to be practically equal to the rest of the Kempers it would probably destroy the company! Sales of the other units would drop dramatically.

Would you take a 50% pay cut and be able to pay your bills with the good will you harvest from being so nice?

Practically equal to the rest of the Kempers? The Player is not even close, take a closer look at it. If Kemper wants to start charging for content to run on their hardware that is their decision and it will work well for the type of customer who enjoys that model. It is incredibly profitable in the video game industry and for companies like IK Multimedia.

It’s also a whole new way of owning what you pay for when you purchase the content and lock it to your device and how that would be managed through Kemper. It’s a different business model vs. their current one.

I own and enjoy a Kemper Rack and Remote. I have no desire to pay for and then manage digital content on any Kemper device.

People are acting as if this is a new concept. It’s as old as the hills.

It isn’t even *here* with Kemper....and people are whining like crazy.

Quote from Ruefus

People are acting as if this is a new concept. It’s as old as the hills.

It isn’t even *here* with Kemper....and people are whining like crazy.

Yes it is nothing new and no one is whining, customers are just expressing their opinions. I don’t ever remember seeing anyone on this forum or any other gear site clamoring for digital content management with regards to Kemper. If Kemper wants to add that as an option to their offering it’s fine, it just totally changes the product and how customers interact with it.

Quote from Job Posthuma

I get close enough to the Halo (on my analog board) using the dual delay on the toaster, crossfeedback between 5 and 10 to taste

As far as I can tell, the Player atm doesn’t come with a delay that allows getting close, there’s no loop to incorporate the Halo pedal, so I’m afraid the Player isn’t for me.

I really anticipated on a 3 knob kemper unit hitting the market, and prefer to stick to one ecosystem…but the above plus absence of a global eq keeps a competitors 3 knob unit on my analogboard..and in my gigbag.

If the “complete enchilada” of efx would come available I’d probably go for it…so here’s a push from one potential buyer to make that happen If it’s written in stone that that will be the case…I wouldn’t mind confirmation that that would also include a global eq.

And while I’m at this lobby quest with personal preferences, I wouldn’t mind a poly octaver to kick one more pedal of my board

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Thanks for the help on that crossfeedback control. I'll have to experiment. Seems like using that control is the only way to get the extra 16ths after the intial "gallop". I was thrilled to be able to dial this in on the toaster! Will eventually decide whether to use the "Playah" as a standalone or put it in "be-twixed" some other pedals.

In regards to the global eq, I was thinking that having the high/low cut on the cabinet will still be perfect for me! I also have a paraEQ (equa-metric-paralyzer) for this just in case. With the possibility of future effect updates and/or expansions, I'm pretty much "all in" on the Playah. Thanks again for that information. This forum is awesome!