Neural Quad Cortex

  • I am with a small, mostly not as vocal group of persons awaiting the release of a couple videos that simply walk through all the amp models that are to be included in the initial QC release. Capture technology is cool, but not ground breaking as Kemper as "been there done that," and Neural is giving their take on the established process. But the amp models included are very interesting to me.


    Are these "models" or undisclosed captures, or possibly a capture run through a derivative modeling process for improvement or enhancement?? The Neural software amps previously released, claim neither to be models or captures of vintage or current amps, but we all have suspicions that they were software recreations of some "real" amps. Or not?


    Please bring on the flood of QC preset walk-through videos while we wait on release. Give us something more than capture comparisons, which have demonstrated quality, but nothing breakthrough and World shattering. Please?

    Here we have few presets/Amp models demonstrated:



    Gear: Kemper Profiler | Neural DSP Plugins
    Guitars: .Strandberg*

  • Now THAT is a great point. In a few other threads I have suggested this as well. A form factor with minimal controls, about the size of the FC with a bluetooth phone app for live tweaks, no ability to profile, but the same internal processing and ability to use the rig manager and editor would be ideal .... especially if it came in around about half the price of the Stage product.


    Such a product would likely fly off the shelves.

    Guess we were talking about his in other threads. I totally agree with you. That would be HX Stomp format with the great Kemper sounds. Waiting for that!

  • In my humble opinion (and observation) this won't happen, especially for one particular reason. The price doesn't only contain the physical product "as is" but also years of continued development and a level of support that's pretty much unique on the market. This costs and we're invited to happily pay for it when we buy a Kemper product. With budget products, Kemper couldn't sustain what we've learned to appreciate.

    To maximize profit, you have to sell your product at the price that makes the most area under the "supply and demand curve" (econ 101). Selling 10M devices at $100 profit each is a much better money maker than selling 10K units at $1000 profit each.


    The bigger issue for Kemper might be the transition to high volume production IMO. When you make 1K profit per unit, you can afford to hand build it and hand test it (although depending on volume, automation may still be a good idea). When your margins are much smaller, and your volume is much higher, suddenly understanding automation and Six Sigma becomes critical.


    FWIW, I hardly think that a $700 to $800 piece of gear can be considered "budget".


    Having said this, you may be right. They may not be interested in this market for the reasons I mentioned above. There may also be the belief that such a product would hinder sales of the higher priced products ..... but I don't buy into this belief myself.

  • I am with a small, mostly not as vocal group of persons awaiting the release of a couple videos that simply walk through all the amp models that are to be included in the initial QC release. Capture technology is cool, but not ground breaking as Kemper as "been there done that," and Neural is giving their take on the established process. But the amp models included are very interesting to me.


    Are these "models" or undisclosed captures, or possibly a capture run through a derivative modeling process for improvement or enhancement?? The Neural software amps previously released, claim neither to be models or captures of vintage or current amps, but we all have suspicions that they were software recreations of some "real" amps. Or not?


    Please bring on the flood of QC preset walk-through videos while we wait on release. Give us something more than capture comparisons, which have demonstrated quality, but nothing breakthrough and World shattering. Please?

    Their amp models are models. Neural's said they use some AI to create the amp models, they probably use it to solve nodal state-space/ODE equations like other modeling companies do. It's still component modeling.


    Neural DSP's amp plugins don't outright claim to be models of specific amps, but if you ask the artists whose names are on the plugins they'll tell you what actual amp models they are based on.

  • I am with a small, mostly not as vocal group of persons awaiting the release of a couple videos that simply walk through all the amp models that are to be included in the initial QC release. Capture technology is cool, but not ground breaking as Kemper as "been there done that," and Neural is giving their take on the established process. But the amp models included are very interesting to me.


    Are these "models" or undisclosed captures, or possibly a capture run through a derivative modeling process for improvement or enhancement?? The Neural software amps previously released, claim neither to be models or captures of vintage or current amps, but we all have suspicions that they were software recreations of some "real" amps. Or not?


    Please bring on the flood of QC preset walk-through videos while we wait on release. Give us something more than capture comparisons, which have demonstrated quality, but nothing breakthrough and World shattering. Please?

    you can compare yourself for free !!
    The plugins from Neural DSP can be installed as test versions so you can A/B compare them with the Kemper and take your time to see/hear what you like more. I did that, downloaded 3 of the plugins (you can use them for some days for free)

    My first impression was positive, but then I tweaked a little bit, and I compared them with my Kemper. I did not try to get the exactly same sound, for my taste this is not necessary. I just played and tried to get the feel of the amp sims. I also played the plugins though my 2x12" V30 cabinet with GPA-400 power amp (of course, speaker simulation switched OFF - could do it with no noticeable latency).

    I liked the Kemper more, through the studio monitors and through the cabinet. Couldn't try the Neural DSP plugins through the Kone though ;-)


    My conclusion: Modeling seems to be able to make good sounds for recording and the plugins sound great until you A/B them with the Kemper. The feel is different, Kemper is much closer on a real amp.

    That's why I think that also on the QC the capture functionality and the library to get captured amps is the main argument for somebody who ever tried a Kemper to consider buying and more important, keeping the QC.


    As I already said in other topics, to be able to tell which sound you really like, a personal A/B comparison is the thing to do. So far in all these comparisons I did (HX Stomp, Headrush Gigboard, Atomic AmpliFire, GT-1000, Ampero, Neural DSP plugins) the Kemper remained to be the King :-)

  • Having said this, you may be right. They may not be interested in this market for the reasons I mentioned above. There may also be the belief that such a product would hinder sales of the higher priced products ..... but I don't buy into this belief myself.

    guess you are right, I don't think it would hinder sales of the higher priced products... on the opposite. I would open them a whole new marked segment. Or some would buy first the "budget" version and later on the top version when they recognize the quality of the sound.

    Anyway, people who can afford (especially guitar players with GAS) will mostly go for the solution with more technical options, even if they don't use these possibilities later. Didn't that happen to all of us in the past? :P

  • It can be a game changer for some.


    Sure, you might consider that you do not need any of these features, and then the game doesn't change for you at all, obviously.

    I meant a game changer in the market.


    The QC doesn't significantly do anything that other units don't already do. It has a unique combination of features but so do the Helix, Axe and KPA.


    I'm saying is its a contender, but not a new "leader".


    Everyone is spending so much energy to pick out differences to prove KPA or QC is better. My point is the QC is already proving itself to be a good unit. Beyond that it will take time to fully understand its strengths and weaknesses i.e, fr when people actually have them rather than watching youtube videos, and then people to form their opinions.


    I equate this to KPA vs Axe. They both have strengths and weaknesses. I prefer the KPA but that doesn't mean the Axe products aren't great units in their own right. Therefore its entirely subjective on which is best...its which is best for me.


    Neural, Kemper and all the other companies have the unenviable task of identifying what is most important to uses to sell the most units.

  • To start with, there appear to exist amps that the KPA has troubles with to profile them. I'm not sure which of the "influencer" reviewers it was (Rabea, I think), and which amp (I have in mind Victory), but I read it was some sort of a demonstration that Kemper did not properly profile an amp that the Quad Cortex captured more than fine (but I did not see the video, I only read reactions about it).


    The QC allows for splitting the signal flow behind the amp section (or also before), to have true stereo lines with independent time-dependent effects, among other things. Afaik, in the Kemper you can't have a stereo chorus and put a delay only on output B of the chorus. That's only one possible example, the signal flow clearly has more flexibility.


    And then, there's the feature of capturing OD/dist pedals. Yes, you can profile them with a Kemper, but you won't have the profiles in the stomp section to combine them with your favourite amp profile. You have to "bake it in" into the amp sound that you profile. C. Kemper said that they _could_ add such a feature to the Kemper, too, but the results would not be what people expect, sound-quality-wise. I haven't heard the QC captures of pedals that the reviewers made, but I can hardly imagine they would allow for a feature to hit the public - even only by influencer videos - if the implementation was totally crappy.


    3 videos with Rabea can be found on this thread. Two dealing with Victory Amp Profiles, and one dealing with pedal captures.

    You should watch them and form your own opinion.


    Btw: The Profiler can for sure run a chorus and a delay in parallel.

  • And then, there's the feature of capturing OD/dist pedals. ... Kemper said that they _could_ add such a feature to the Kemper, too, but the results would not be what people expect, sound-quality-wise. I haven't heard the QC captures of pedals that the reviewers made, but I can hardly imagine they would allow for a feature to hit the public - even only by influencer videos - if the implementation was totally crappy.

    Based on the pedal capture demos, Metal Zone was the only spot on. Just clarifying, ckemper said that the KPA could profile pedals with current HW, but the results would be pretty similar to what QC demos are delivering and that quality is not what KP customers expect. But he leaves the door open to further improvements on pedal capturing in the industry. Anyway I would like to see pedal capturing in the KPA, soon.

  • ckemper could you clarify the OD pedal profiling capability that you mentioned is possible. I think you have been clear on that you feel the results could be sub par.


    For me this isn't the biggest question, its whether it would be usable with an amp profile.


    I assume that a profiled pedal would be a profile in itself rather than a present/effect? We already know 2 profiles can't be run at the same time and pedals offer little value on their own.


    So are you saying that it would be possible to profile a pedal but as a profile or as an effect that can be assigned along with a "regular" profile.


    I would suggest if it can be run with a regular profile, it may have value. If not its of very limited value.


    Does that make sense? Apologies in advance if you answered this earlier.


    I also declare I don't use pedals so its not a question for me, I'm asking purely to clarify the art of the possible :).

  • where is anal retentive detail oriented YouTube Demo guy who walks down the amp models? They all exist, ad infinitum for Axe, Helix, and the others ...........


    Well, the unit is not out yet...

    My opinion is that ndsp is not trustworthy

    How? Doug Castro is a player, and they have been selling stomps for years

    The QC doesn't significantly do anything that other units don't already do.


    How? It's the only device in the world that can mix profiles in series and parallel

  • 3 videos with Rabea can be found on this thread. Two dealing with Victory Amp Profiles, and one dealing with pedal captures.

    You should watch them and form your own opinion.


    Btw: The Profiler can for sure run a chorus and a delay in parallel.

    I'm going to be honest here, I recently got an amp that the Kemper does not want to profile and that is frustrating. I am considering the QC because (so far) it seems like it doesn't have this limitation. I'm going to wait a while to see how the QC does after it's release before purchasing one. But my question is, do you have any plans to improve the profiling capabilities of the Kemper to help eliminate this limitation?

  • Quote from V8guitar

    The QC doesn't significantly do anything that other units don't already do.


    pippopluto How? It's the only device in the world that can mix profiles in series and parallel.


    I'm less interested in how you get to the sound. Axe and Helix can run dual amps. The fact that you can profile and run dual/different paths - is "just" a combination of what other units do... blugh


    All devices have some unique points but its not significant because if you really want dual amps you can get sounds close to KPA via Helix and Axe if you really want it. So IMO not a game changer.


    For example It doesn't come in rack format or with a built in amp....is that important, yes to me, but not a game changer...

    The KPA was a game changer I think becuase it had an entirely different concept of profiling. The Qc has managed to mimic this and other bits but with trade offs as well.


    That's my only point hence why this level of functional decomposition is a bit irrelevant.

  • usually just a little bit more effort is required to sensibly contribute to a discussion.

    after 94 pages and close to 1.900 posts in this thread, it is a bit difficult to keep track with all the video snippets those many people posted here.

    If there was just some "link library" to a thread where all youtube or soundcloud links would have a quick access, it might be a little easier to resolve these kind of doubts (this might be a feature other threads could profit of, who knows ;)).


    But indeed, it was only hearsay, so my apologies, I should not be contributing to chatter noise.


    However, I myself had troubles to get profiles out of an old ADA MP1 unit (from the first batch, I changed tubes & caps) I bought somewhere 2nd hand on the web. I did not give it too much importance, as I thought the unit is just too noisy (which it probably is, the ADA noise mod exists for some reason), a friend of mine had to find a workaround profiling it at significantly lower gain and then tweaking the gain up manually in the profile, but I'd say that did not really conserve the typical ADAish cutting high end. Anyway, the unit seems quite a mess, so whatever.