For millionth time... Why is Kemper profiles so trebly/fizzy??

    I cannot comment on the profiling process but I do agree regarding the bass. I think this plays a big part in why the fizz/thin/brightness comments keep cropping up. The lack of bass, reduces the depth and character of the profile and as a result the thin fizzy tone becomes much more apparent.

    Quote from ancientmariner

    I cannot comment on the profiling process but I do agree regarding the bass. I think this plays a big part in why the fizz/thin/brightness comments keep cropping up. The lack of bass, reduces the depth and character of the profile and as a result the thin fizzy tone becomes much more apparent.

    Amps that have depth mod work better with the kemper, like the diezel vh4 and so on.

    what about the high shift in the cab section? I've tamed a few hairy profiles using that and darken/beef it up a bit too. Also, if fizzy or hair was what I was looking for then I would increase the high shift. The rest i would use the character knob plus or minus some pure cab. I support various eq and boosts post amp/cab stack as well.



    I hope we get modulated and filter reverbs too :thumbup:

    Your recent pickup swap won't help, Ceddy, 'cause you went for something brighter and with less bottom end than the EMGs you were using previously.


    Not saying this is the issue - far from it, but it may be adding to the problem. Is it a coincidence that you've reached this point of frustration again now, only a few days after the swap?

    Quote from ancientmariner

    I have 1000 rigs on my kemper, trust me when I say I have tried many profiles. I have also used the kemper with a cab and a dxr10. The fizz seems to be a charactieristic of the Kemper, this issue has been coming up for years on this and other forums. Too bright, too fizzy, too thin..all those comments are in abundance. When using a traditional valve amp, there is fizz of course but there is depth in there too which balances the tone, with the kemper you lose the depth of the amp tone and then have to try to manage the top end without losing the characterstic of the amp. Thats my experience anyway.

    Maybe the Kemper is just the wrong gear for you.
    Sell it and you will feel better.
    Not every gear is for every user.
    I will keep mine for it's the best I've ever used after years of playing tube amps by Marshall, Mesa Boogie, Fender,...!

    I recommend doing your own profile. The Kemper sounds like what you give it, that’s really down to the skill and personal taste of the guy doing the profile/recording. Don’t forget to do a reamp recorded A/B comparison during the process to help you really refine and nail it if total accuracy is required.


    Until you do this you simply won’t know the real truth and real limitations of the Kemper.


    It’s like going to New York for Gumbo, sure you’ll get some interesting interpretations of the dish, you might even draw some conclusions about what you think Gumbo is and whether you like it or not. But unless you actually go to New Orleans and try it there in person, we’ll, you really haven’t really experienced real Gumbo, only some other (maybe great) chefs interpretations of something that’s in the heart and soul.

    comparing a track that was recorded with a certain amp to a profile you made with the same model all is somewhat nonsensical, given all the variables.
    the biggest being:

    • cabs/speakers used
    • mics used
    • position of these mics
    • post EQ/mix of the mics

    The tones you're after were most likely recorded with more than one mic. Pairing a R121 with a LDC is a popular approach. Trying to achieve the same sound with let's say a SM57 simply won't work.


    Personally I'm not a big fan of tone-matching, but if you're after such a specific tone, you can always route your mic signal(s) through your DAW with a match EQ set up to mimic the target tone and profile the setup.
    Just make sure to use musical settings on the match EQ, often they are set to maximum resolution and 100% match - in my pre-Profiler experience a setting of 50-90% match is much better - use your ears.


    Also

    • use Definition to quickly adapt the Profile to your pickups (brighter pickups -> lower Definition a bit)
    • a bit of Clarity can remove some unwanted high frequency content
    • use a post amp EQ to dial in the high cut and/or a few dBs of bass boost around 80-150Hz to add 'oompf' bell-type EQ, not shelf for the bass

    hth

    Quote from MentaL

    Tried a factory reset / update on the unit?


    EDIT; the savage is loaded up next to me - i'll send you a DI of the settings I made from your clip - try and use it.


    PS: wouldn't happen to have distortion sense boosted do you ? the profile sounds like its distorting bad. If you let me know the profile I can try it my end. I also aim for articulation with my profiles I don't really make studio ones that have the sound in that original clip, although I'm willing to expand :) also if the bass is being reduced thats usually because it's a boosted profile that cuts the low end and tightens / brightens the sound.


    Dont know why "factory reset" always comes up... I never change anything in the output EQ section or anything


    Does anybody even do that? I dont know why one would, except if somebody has their Kemper for live use exclusively


    But for studio use (which I use 99.9% of the time) I dont know why one would change output EQ


    Also my distortion sense is at 0.0


    Quote from MentaL

    Fizz can be eq'd out thankfully. My annoyance with the Kemper is the lack of proper bass , it misses a lot of it from my experience. Too much and the profile turns boomy, too little it becomes brittle. Oh the joys of profiling.

    Exactly, I dont really mind the fizz itself; I usually put a low-pass between 6000-12000hz


    But the lows are often lacking in Kemper for some reason


    @schreckmusic has some good evidence of this! :)




    Quote from MentaL

    Haha I felt my profile was bad in comparison, silly me! But I do wonder if distortion sense is enabled because the savage is tight.

    Dont feel bad :)


    Honestly: your profile is more in line with what I'm personally looking for:
    I dont really want that Hammerfall "low-muddy" one, I want a sharp Grave Digger/Running Wild tone, but those also have the lows that I feel is lacking often.
    so the comparison is not aimed at you personally! :)



    Quote from Monkey_Man

    Your recent pickup swap won't help, Ceddy, 'cause you went for something brighter and with less bottom end than the EMGs you were using previously.


    Not saying this is the issue - far from it, but it may be adding to the problem. Is it a coincidence that you've reached this point of frustration again now, only a few days after the swap?

    The Kemper profile is a reamp from original Hammerfall DIs, thats not my pickup :saint:


    And even if it was me playing the Kemper part, the pickup wouldn't be THAT much of an issue.
    I want the pickup to be bright and tight, thats just the way I like it.
    But the amp tone cannot lack low-end just because of that...


    Quote from Per

    I recommend doing your own profile. The Kemper sounds like what you give it, that’s really down to the skill and personal taste of the guy doing the profile/recording. Don’t forget to do a reamp recorded A/B comparison during the process to help you really refine and nail it if total accuracy is required.


    Until you do this you simply won’t know the real truth and real limitations of the Kemper.


    It’s like going to New York for Gumbo, sure you’ll get some interesting interpretations of the dish, you might even draw some conclusions about what you think Gumbo is and whether you like it or not. But unless you actually go to New Orleans and try it there in person, we’ll, you really haven’t really experienced real Gumbo, only some other (maybe great) chefs interpretations of something that’s in the heart and soul.

    I dont have gear enough to do my own profiles.


    I have a EVH 5150 and a Harley Benton 4x12 in rehearsal but the tone I'm looking for is pretty much always Engl Savage (like the Hammerfall and Reampzone) and what I want is something in between... Sharp like the Reampzone Kemper profile, but have all the low-end like the Hammerfall tone (out of which a lot is high-passed anyway, but it still needs to be there to begin with!)


    Yes I'm 100% aware of all these factors, I'm not a beginner :thumbup:


    I can use Tonematching (using Izotope Ozone) to get pretty much 100% identical outcome, I've succeeded with that before.
    But thing is I'm not really interested in having tonematched tones in my projects, I wanna have something "unique" but it cannot lack all that low-end to begin with which Kemper profiles often do (Reampzone has confirmed this, and Schreckmusic has done experiments showing where the Kemper lacks in bass)

    I know you must have done this - but how does the profile react to simple tweaks of bass and middle knobs?


    Have you tried adding some thickness using the graphical eq stomp (either post- or pre stack - or adding pre and taking away post, or vice versa)? The graphical EQ is the quickest/easiest EQ stomp to setup, that's why I recommend it :) You can always make a note of results and settings and dial in more accurately with the studio EQ effect

    Quote from Cederick

    I just downloaded the Hammerfall "Hearts On Fire" unprocessed multitracks

    this track is for sure doubled, so a sort of processing, even if played twice, is done. Would like to hear the track mono, aka coming from the guitar as pristine.

    "...why being satisfied with an amp, as great as it can be, while you can have them all?" michael mellner


    "Rock in Ecclesia" - new album on iTunes or Google music

    Ok look at this!


    Here's my mixed drums with ORIGINAL guitar tracks (with some high and low-pass)
    It sounds full and nice, even tho its not the sound I would go for personally.

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    Here's a Kemper reamp from an "unnamed profile maker". Thin and fizzy! Even with similar low/high pass settings. Has no low body to it.

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    Here's another one from "another profile maker". Thin and fizzy! Has no low body to it.

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    And here's ANOTHER ONE from "once again another profile maker". This is not as fizzy, but it still lacks the body of the original Hammerfall track.

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    SO UNLEASH THE IZOTOPE OZONE PLUGIN...


    [Blocked Image: http://i67.tinypic.com/10oekxj.jpg]


    Here I repeat:
    Kemper matched /// ORIGINAL /// Kemper matched /// ORIGINAL

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    As you can hear, it suddenly has that low body that I want. It pretty much exactly sounds like the original.




    Here's a "full mix" with Kemper reamp AND Izotope EQ matching on top of it.

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    You can compare this to the "mix original" , the first audio clip in this post.

    Put a Studio EQ stomp in one of the blocks after the amp and set the low cut at 80hz and high cut at 8500hz.

    Maybe it's because you're chasing 80s/90s tones and we're in 2017? Don't take this the wrong way, I'm just saying that recording and production techniques have changed immensely since those kind of tones were fashionable. Then again, maybe it is just a fault of the Kemper. Maybe it really can't capture that low end. Who's to say..?

    Quote from Cederick

    Why should micing up an Engl Savage/Mesa Dual Rectifier with some V30 cab be any different today than in the 90s?

    I don't think Savages existed in the 90's but I digress. :p


    Mostly because of the change from analog tape machines to digital converters, you can store more accurately the high frequency content of the signal. Also the birth of DAW based editing made a huge change.