Kemper 2 expectations

    Maybe some users are wishing for a KPA that results in a profile with the linearity of a modeled amp, like in the Axe. Is that even possible? I don’t know. Would it make my musical life better? Well, there’s no way for me to know.


    So far, beyond experimentation, linear controls on devices that don’t sound as good as the KPA haven’t lured me to the competition. If Kemper could make this happen, while staying true to their best tone priority, I guess that could be cool.


    But in the real world, the linearity of tube amps usually results in more people who don’t know how to dial them in making them sound bad, not the opposite.


    Same with effects. The internet is riddled with unattractive delay and reverb tails you’d never want to hear on a “real” record, exampled proudly in the name of supposedly “great” effects. Sorry, that’s the internet not music.


    Unless there’s a true musical purpose, guitar sounds the best, sits best in a mix, drives the beat most successfully, etc .. dry. Dry. Or at least with the appearance/perception of a dry tone, even if there are subtle modulation and time-based elements incorporated.


    Since day one, there have been great tweed, blackface, British, etc profiles. Over several years the KPA fw has been streamlined and profile switching and other utility aspects of the device have been improved, that’s true.


    And yes, if this guy CK is motivated by science and design and ultimately by sound to evolve his concept, I’m confident it would be an inspiration and I’d want one. But a new device inspired by market chatter and manufacturer one-ups-manship, and ultimately by money, which attempts to be everything to everyone, this would strike me as a deflating development. I have always rooted for Kemper to make money, but I hope he/they continue to do it his way.


    *At least, once they create an easy, streamlined, full-featured, mostly bug-free editor.


    Also, check-out that Daniel Lanois rig rundown, the one where he’s mostly on his pedal steel and then a bit on a 50s Les Paul with p-90s. His amp is a tweed Deluxe, and his effect is an early eighties Lexicon delay—a guitar setup with a pretty miraculous tone that, at the time the segment was filmed, he hadn’t changed in twenty-five or thirty years.


    The legacy significance of digital gear, some will argue, is equal, in its own way, to vintage amps and instruments. I like both. :)

    Lets be clear: no matter what your key issue(s) or your favorite feature(s), as good as the Kemper is, it is far from perfect. The fact that there are so many varying opinions on what should be fixed or added, combined with the admittedly kick-ass policy of a constant and free upgrade path is clear proof of the validity on this point. It is not perfect so just stop with the silly nonsense that it is.


    If you want to offer a solid justification meant to sway opinion on what you think should be fixed or added next, I am all ears: I have changed my stance or priority more than once in the past after someone has posted a good justification for their idea and mothballed my own in response. I would posit many here do the same.


    On the other hand, if you are just shooting down someone else's idea or sense of priority, I think you are doing both yourself and the community a disservice. Just stop. Walk away from the keyboard and come back when you have something worthwhile to say.

    ^ I agree. This thread is about ideas of how to improve the KPA and it can be very productive if not put in comparison with what other companies are doing or comparing the kemper to other devices out there. It's good however to compare what a Kemper 2 can do that Kemper 1 can't do. If it's possible to do all of this with the current hardware then that would be great.


    So ignoring all other modelers out there and focusing basically on the Kemper itself, I recently got my tube amps out of storage and bought some new guitar preamp and pedaland I noticed a real need for improvement. in regards to Kemper.


    All third party profiles (commercial and stock profiles) sounded inferior to my own profiles of my own Amps regardless of how good the third party profiles are. This actually is supported by the fact that the most impressive clips or videos I've heard, were a result of someone profiling their own gear and playing it using the same guitar or guitars. This leads me to believe that Profiling the actual gain knob of the actual amp and getting similar tone stacks will make the difference less so when Profiles are shared, you still get a sound that is much closer to what you hear in the third party clips.


    The gain knob in the Kemper is a great tube drive sound and would be great if it can still be included in a pedal format meanwhile the physical tone gain knob on the KPA would resemble that of the amp profiled. This would work better than the Amp Parameters in the Kemper to get the profile to sound like the original amp.


    If anyone doubts this, just look around and you will see that the best and most impressive results are coming from those who are using their own profiles and if you own tube amps, and an SM57, go ahead make a profile and you will notice how much better that profile will be. So for all those who don't own tube amps, I think they would get much better result if Kemper was to actually profile the gain knobs and provide similar tone stacks if possible of course. Also Kemper currently can profiles pedals as well as preamp or power amps, but can't combine two at the same time unless you own two Kemper but due to this limitation, you won't find many preamps only or power amps only or pedal profiles.


    So, yes sure there can be improvements and yes sure adding affects can be seen as an improvement but for me, I didn't buy the Kemper for effects even though I'm glad it has them, but Profiling is the main reason I bought a Kemper and for the most part, that's why most if not all bought the Kemper for, effects can be easily had any where and everywhere.

    Quote from Dean_R

    ^
    All third party profiles (commercial and stock profiles) sounded inferior to my own profiles of my own Amps regardless of how good the third party profiles are. This actually is supported by the fact that the most impressive clips or videos I've heard, were a result of someone profiling their own gear and playing it using the same guitar or guitars. This leads me to believe that Profiling the actual gain knob of the actual amp and getting similar tone stacks will make the difference less so when Profiles are shared, you still get a sound that is much closer to what you hear in the third party clips.

    I think that this is more related to the cabinet than the guitar... Cool idea the gain knob profiling... maybe it will help.

    Too many feature requests end-up sounding like treatise on marketing and commitment to the end-user as justification or validation, you know, like lectures about how CK should run his business. I take issue with that. A slow steady burn, that incrementally addresses a combination of user and designer priorities, this has already resulted in a device with a lifespan that has exceeded most of my other digital gear investments. The device is still relevant, because no other has surpassed its sound. The Kemper business model has been great for users exploiting it for what it does now, today. I’ve read zero posts claiming it’s perfect, but several posts resorting to name-calling and bullying in order to hammer-out a forum landscape where their suggestions face no blowback. That’s the internet for you. Meanwhile, I give CK the benefit of the doubt. If so many of these technical suggestions seem so obvious to me, and they do because they are, I imagine CK and his team have hypothesized about these concepts for ages already, since the beginning. A combination of resources, capabilities, pure science and maybe yes the whim of its inventor, will dictate whether or not they come to pass. But no, repeating requests over and over again, and attempting to stifle othe musicians who have different priorities and perspectives—it’s hard to imagine how that’s going to get things going any faster. YMMV.

    Quote from szykman

    I think that this is more related to the cabinet than the guitar... Cool idea the gain knob profiling... maybe it will help.

    I have no doubt that the Cabinet has probably the biggest role in influencing guitar tone. Once you find the right cabinet to match an amp, even in the real world, the amp Knobs, treble. bass, mid etc become so much more responsive, so I would imagine that it can also be the other way around meaning that if you can change the tone stack (Treble, bass, etc) that you would find one that's better suited for a specific cabinet/speaker.


    At any rate I do recall that tone stacks were promised very early on, but never were delivered for whatever reason.

    I live for continual improvement and always have. It's how I make my living and is obviously at the core of the Kemper business.


    My point was more about "how" the ideas for improvement are often put out there. More like demands and scathing criticisms of all the great work that has been and is being done.


    In my daytime world it's like the marketing person that goes around saying "The IT department is crap" because they won't swap their year-old smartphone for the latest model. It's unfair and unhelpful.

    Quote from Finally

    My point was more about "how" the ideas for improvement are often put out there. More like demands and scathing criticisms of all the great work that has been and is being done.

    How many posts in this thread can you cite that actually demand anything or offer scathing criticism? In my opinion, those terms are generally an exaggeration.

    Quote from Finally

    Several months down the road now and I honestly can't understand why anybody thinks the KPA needs a major update or is deficient in some really significant way.


    You're entitled to your opinion, but it's really immature and naive IMO to demand things from a company that continuously improves an already amazing product for free and doesn't try to build in obsolescence and make you buy the next model.


    Imagine how much you'd lose your mind if they released a KPA2 and then released a KPA3 18 months later.

    One thing that Kemper has done consistently that Fractal has failed horridly at is keeping a consistent platform such that any tone you had before an upgrade, will sound exactly the same after an upgrade.


    Personally, this is an extremely important feature for me which trumps pretty much everything else. I don't know about you guys, but I have TONS of hours of dialing in tones for different songs and sets that I rely on sounding the same after an upgrade.


    The current KPA has the ability to do nearly everything that has been mentioned in this thread. The notable exception IMO is dual rigs/amps. I have played around with the new Toast ME editor and believe that anyone who was complaining should now be quite happy that an editor exists. IMO, requiring it to be USB only is simply silly. The editor is very comprehensive and works well, so people should be off of that horse finally.


    In the mean time, since Kemper hasn't changed their base hardware design, the company continues to enhance it with firmware updates for free. All of you begging for a KPA2 ..... how long do you suppose that practice would go on once a new model was released? Think about it.


    For me, I could care less about a color display, an iPad interface, or even dual amp capabilities. I am all about the tone and the live function capabilities of this product. Give me an enhanced verb engine and either the ability to profile a pedal, or some better distortion stomps and not only will I not buy another competitor, I will likely simply purchase another used KPA even if this one dies in an electrical accident!


    The floorboard KPA on the other hand offers Kemper an opportunity to enter a completely different price range of product. This will bring problems all of its own for CK since higher volume manufacturing is another beast altogether. Still, if the same DSP is used, it would be a really great product for relatively little effort (any new product is always more effort than it seems, so it isn't easy by any measure).

    Quote from OneEng1

    One thing that Kemper has done consistently that Fractal has failed horridly at is keeping a consistent platform such that any tone you had before an upgrade, will sound exactly the same after an upgrade.


    Personally, this is an extremely important feature for me which trumps pretty much everything else. I don't know about you guys, but I have TONS of hours of dialing in tones for different songs and sets that I rely on sounding the same after an upgrade.

    Agree 100%.


    Quote from OneEng1

    In the mean time, since Kemper hasn't changed their base hardware design, the company continues to enhance it with firmware updates for free. All of you begging for a KPA2 ..... how long do you suppose that practice would go on once a new model was released? Think about it.

    Agree 100%.


    Quote from OneEng1

    Give me an enhanced verb engine and either the ability to profile a pedal, or some better distortion stomps and not only will I not buy another competitor, I will likely simply purchase another used KPA even if this one dies in an electrical accident!

    Agree 100%.


    Quote from OneEng1

    The floorboard KPA on the other hand offers Kemper an opportunity to enter a completely different price range of product. This will bring problems all of its own for CK since higher volume manufacturing is another beast altogether. Still, if the same DSP is used, it would be a really great product for relatively little effort (any new product is always more effort than it seems, so it isn't easy by any measure).

    Agree 100%.

    Sometimes I get the feeling the people who don't want a new version of a Kemper is to protect their investment.. :) afraid their Kempers will loose value.. Hey I own a Kemper rack, but if a KPA 2 is released and meets my needs I'll buy it.. we always have to be prepared to loose a bit when new versions come out, that's just the way it is ..

    Quote from Dean_R


    Also Kemper currently can profiles pedals as well as preamp or power amps, but can't combine two at the same time unless you own two Kemper but due to this limitation, you won't find many preamps only or power amps only or pedal profiles.


    So, yes sure there can be improvements and yes sure adding affects can be seen as an improvement but for me, I didn't buy the Kemper for effects even though I'm glad it has them, but Profiling is the main reason I bought a Kemper and for the most part, that's why most if not all bought the Kemper for, effects can be easily had any where and everywhere.

    Profiling was the only reason I bought my Kemper. Period. I also bought the Kemper DI so I could make DAPs without issue.


    Profiles of just preamp and power amp sections take you into a modular approach to amp simulation. The accuracy of the profile of these components is the science that is the job of the Kemper's profiling engine. How you combine these modules to create a complete amp and cab (and maybe even the room it is in), is the measure of your creativity.


    With one Kemper, you can only load one component. But you might be able to use other gear. For example, if you own a hardware preamp, you could send it into a Kemper with a power amp profile.


    Why wouldn't you just create a DAP that contains both the pre and power amp? That is where creativity comes in. Here is an example:


    You have a Synergy Syn-2 with a T/DLX module and a Plexi module. The actual '66 Fender Blackface Twin used 6V6GT tubes in its power amp section. The '66 Blackface Deluxe used 6L6GC tubes. Marshall Plexi amps used EL34 tubes. Most of the Synergy users out there use their preamps in the effects loop of a head or combo amp. In most cases, that limits the power amp section to one tube type for all of the preamp modules.


    With a Synergy Syn-2 and these two modules feeding a Kemper with 6V6, 6L6 and EL34 tube amp profiles, you could use MIDI to get the right tube amp matched to the intended preamp channel.


    Speaking of Synergy,


    Quote from ipran

    When The times Come for the kemper 2.00 My Wish This is Just an upgrade slot device like synergy module


    Good idea. Maybe Kemper could create a box like the Syn-2 that has two slots for KPA modules. The two modules could be used in stereo, or linked to give the user the ability to mix and match preamp and power amp only profiles.

    Quote from DigitalTube

    Sometimes I get the feeling the people who don't want a new version of a Kemper is to protect their investment.. afraid their Kempers will loose value.. Hey I own a Kemper rack, but if a KPA 2 is released and meets my needs I'll buy it.. we always have to be prepared to loose a bit when new versions come out, that's just the way it is ..

    Yeah, it does seem that way for some, DigitalTube.


    What OneEng1, wwittman and I were agreeing on 'though is the fact that we don't feel like there's much missing as things stand, and that the ongoing FW updates are a Godsend. We also happened to agree that the ability to Profile pedals and include them in Rigs, something I've said many times I thought would surely have to be the next logical step in Kemper's evolution, along with updated 'verbs (including a spring collection), would in our humble opinions "complete" the unit... for us.


    For others, dual-amp capability might be the final frontier.


    We also agreed that a floorboard wouldn't conceivably require much R&D investment and certainly next to no software development; it'd be all about the hardware configuration, the robustness of switches (already tested, you'd think, via the existing foot controller) and any included / onboard pedals, and would therefore make sense on paper. Add to that moving into a new market (lower price bracket) and taking business away from Fractal and Line6, and it might seem to be something that'd be hard to resist for the company.

    Quote from DigitalTube

    Sometimes I get the feeling the people who don't want a new version of a Kemper is to protect their investment.. :) afraid their Kempers will loose value.. Hey I own a Kemper rack, but if a KPA 2 is released and meets my needs I'll buy it.. we always have to be prepared to loose a bit when new versions come out, that's just the way it is ..

    Monkey_Man had it right.


    I simply don't have any need for the unit to do more. Even my "wants" are pretty small since it isn't like I can't get great sounding rigs now. There are obviously things that can always be improved. Perhaps it would be possible to get an even MORE accurate profile than we get today; however, to my ears, the KPA is already at a point of diminishing returns. Could it be better? Sure could. Would anyone notice? Debatable.


    To your point though, I would be kind of disappointed if they came out with a new KPA2 soon. You are correct that I believe my free updates would come to a sharp end before I got the new verb engine.


    I mean really, it makes sense for a new verb engine to be put in. Looking at the delay engine beside the very simplistic verb engine in the new editor really brings to the fore how basic the verb engine is compared to the now, quite sophisticated delay engine. What would really be cool would be if we could download impulse responses and then tweak our verb from the impulse response ;)


    That might be a tall order since in-flight convolution is very processor intensive (and memory intensive). Beautiful, but costly. Ah well.... I can always dream :)


    Still, I guess I would much rather see a few more revisions to the current KPA than see a new KPA2 released. Perhaps it is just selfishness though!

    To be fair, I think there'd always be an element of "selfishness" (driven by the reality of budgetary concerns) in our attitudes, OneEng1; after all, we've paid our dough and now want to play.


    I do however think you're being a bit hard on yourself by saying "Perhaps it is just selfishness 'though!", and I'd like to think the statement was an indication of your self-deprecating sense of humour; every ego needs one after all IMHO. :D


    That said, I do think our take on the matter is more-than-fair. I mean, if the unit does pretty much everything we need, with more tweaks to follow, we're not gonna ask for much, right? We acknowledge that we could use "a little" (running an additional stomp Profile, 'verb etc.), but are confident in the fact that we already have more than enough functionality at hand to get the job done.


    IMHO, the fact that new feature requests so often border on the esoteric illustrates perfectly the utility of the unit and software right now. We'd like more, but it's gonna have to be a bit sparkly, new-fangled and fancy-pants-like.


    Well, of course this is all preference. What I prefer is not necessarily what you prefer, and vice versa. I thought this was a given :-).