Ahhh What's that? A New Kemper Model? Profiler Player

Quote from entrophy

The point where this rationalization falls apart is when the manufacturer contradicts it by saying, "This unit is at price point X because we have put so much hardware in there and all of this costs amount Y so while we'd be glad to offer the unit at price point Z we just can't and X is really the best we can do."

Of course both can be true: that what you wrote is true, and that the manufacturer is explaining the price exactly how I paraphrased.

Which leaves only one conclusion: they are lying. Doesn't matter in which way exactly, as all options leave a bad taste in the mouth.

Let me prove this with a comparison to the market where price discrimination has been abused the most. Ironically it's the automative sector, which links the comparison nicely to Kemper being out of Germany.

VW and BWM started a subscription scheme a few years back, with BMW going as far as offering seat heating as a sub. But the seat heating hardware was installed in every car from the factory. VW is charging a sub fee for voice recognition. The hardware is in every car. Tesla is offering full autopilot capabilities, the hardware is already in there.

Now the contradiction: all car manufacturers, in particular out of Germany, have claimed for many years that the price increases from 2020 onwards were purely driven by a component shortage, and basically they blamed the consumers for imaginary demands for more smart features, They increased prices and said they're simply passing on increased manufacturing costs and there's really nothing they can do about, with some going as far as claiming they wish they could offer a lower price point but they simply can't.

Not only is this contradicted by many years of car manufacturers being caught installing hardware that isn't unlocked through a sub or through a "facelift" (where it turns out the lower-priced pre-facelift car already had the electronics for the "new" feature), it's also contradicted by the recent situation in Germany where out of nowhere the federal government ended an EV subsidy. Suddenly all the manufacturers that proclaimed for many years they could offer no lower price point chipped in and said, no problem, we'll give you an instant rebate of 4500 Euros.

Price discrimination is really just a rationalization of consumer fraud.

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Are you serious? "Price Discrimination" "Consumer Fraud" Perhaps you're trolling. My MacBook Pro has the capability of running Logic Pro. Wait, I have to purchase it? How awful. Apple should have supplied it upon purchase. 😂

Why people here thinks they are entitled to get anything at the price point they like is something that baffles me. A new product is out at a defined price point, take it or leave it. Is no fraud, is no scam, is not unfair. Companies decide the price points of their products and they (have to) make money out of it. Looking that all the Players of the first run where sold out in 2 (!!!) days, Kemper is doing very well, and I'm very glad they are. This way they have the resources to keep developing this products. If they ever come out with an OS upgrade for my Stage that gives me something I need/want and there is a price tag attached to it, I'll pay for it and be thankful they did the work. 12 years of free upgrades doesn't mean they are bound to keep doing it.

Quote from Kellerblues

Why people here thinks they are entitled to get anything at the price point they like is something that baffles me. A new product is out at a defined price point, take it or leave it. Is no fraud, is no scam, is not unfair. Companies decide the price points of their products and they (have to) make money out of it. Looking that all the Players of the first run where sold out in 2 (!!!) days, Kemper is doing very well, and I'm very glad they are. This way they have the resources to keep developing this products. If they ever come out with an OS upgrade for my Stage that gives me something I need/want and there is a price tag attached to it, I'll pay for it and be thankful they did the work. 12 years of free upgrades doesn't mean they are bound to keep doing it.

I wholeheartedly echo this!

I find the salty reaction to my previous post quite fascinating. Basically every response reads like, "If you have an issue with the quoted feature set at the quoted price point then you are the problem."

I fondly remember a time where companies had to prove their products are worth the money. Now - according to some people - reluctant buyers have to justify their reluctance.

Very fascinating.

Anyway, I won't bother responding to the trolling.

Quote from entrophy

I find the salty reaction to my previous post quite fascinating. Basically every response reads like, "If you have an issue with the quoted feature set at the quoted price point then you are the problem."

I fondly remember a time where companies had to prove their products are worth the money. Now - according to some people - reluctant buyers have to justify their reluctance.

Very fascinating.

Anyway, I won't bother responding to the trolling.

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No, every response was straight to your accusation that Kemper lied.

I guess you can’t come close to proving that so now you duck out like a coward proclaiming any further response is merely trolling.

You are what you are and on full display here.

Quote from entrophy

I find the salty reaction to my previous post quite fascinating. Basically every response reads like, "If you have an issue with the quoted feature set at the quoted price point then you are the problem."

I fondly remember a time where companies had to prove their products are worth the money. Now - according to some people - reluctant buyers have to justify their reluctance.

Very fascinating.

Anyway, I won't bother responding to the trolling.

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You'd know it if I were trolling. I'd post infrequently, have nothing truly constructive to say when I did and deflect any disagreement on my chosen position.

Kind of like you.

I think it's important to remember that Kemper is a business and it doesn't make sense to offer essentially a Kemper Stage for 1/2 the price with all the same features. There will be compromises, there will be features that aren't there. But that's why it's less money.

I think a lot of people (myself included at times) get caught up comparing it to not only the Stage, but to the Tonex and HX Stomp. I had an HX Stomp - it's not even in the same league as Kemper in terms of tone and feel. The Player is 1/2 the price of a Stage, so I wouldn't expect that either. Tonex doesn't have effects, so the price difference makes sense there too.

It's normal and common to expect to pay a premium for a premium product in a given market space. This is why a Camry doesn't cost the same as a Ferrari.

As well, Kemper directly responded in this thread to answer several questions and complaints. At this point, it's up to you to decide if you would like to purchase a Player or not. For me, the Stage is the perfect solution for the groups I'm in, the Player isn't. But that's a reflection of my needs.

Quote from Ruefus

You'd know it if I were trolling. I'd post infrequently, have nothing truly constructive to say when I did and deflect any disagreement on my chosen position.

Kind of like you.

I find it constructive to explore the allegation of a lie being told by the Kemper company being introduced to the conversation by someone who then refuses to offer any example or evidence.

It may not 'construct' a result you appreciate but that doesn't concern me.

Cliff...is it you?

Quote from Kellerblues

Cliff...is it you?

Oh….oh…oh……..

….oh, dang…

I updated and dialed in the Playah today! Was extremely happy with the results! I'm gig ready! Hell Yeah!!!

Just ordered a player. This is my first Kemper product. I currently have a Seymour Duncan Powerstage and Celestion F12-X200. Does anyone have experience with this speaker vs the Kemper Kone? Is the Kone better with Kemper products?

Quote from mcr_100

Just ordered a player. This is my first Kemper product. I currently have a Seymour Duncan Powerstage and Celestion F12-X200. Does anyone have experience with this speaker vs the Kemper Kone? Is the Kone better with Kemper products?

I do not know about the F12-X200, but the Kabinet is my go to speaker. Pant flap room feel/sound, and great off axis along with speaker imprints.

Quote from mcr_100

Just ordered a player. This is my first Kemper product. I currently have a Seymour Duncan Powerstage and Celestion F12-X200. Does anyone have experience with this speaker vs the Kemper Kone? Is the Kone better with Kemper products?

I’ve got the f12-x200 and built the cab Celestion have designed for that speaker.

I have a non powered Kemper cab and an extra Kone speaker in a Egnater Tweaker 1x12 cab.

I have the SD Powerstage 170 amp.that have used when trying out those cabs.

The Kone is far better when using the imprints in your Kemper device. It is better as a ‘full range’ speaker and not using the imprints instead letting the Rig supply the cab sim. I prefer the Kone with imprints but it does pretty good without them

The F12-x200 is better than most FRFR monitors I’ve tried but it does have a separate high frequency driver (tweeter) where the Kone is a coaxial speaker cone design and it makes a difference. The upper frequencies from the Kone are more like a ‘guitar speaker’ delivers and less shrill, harsh like a PA monitor delivers.

The Celestion F12M-150 is a tricone speaker and it is more like the Kone and rates right between the Kone and F12-x200 in my mind.

The Kemper Kone is probably one of the best things to happen to guitar speaker simulation. I was selling my Stage and Kemper cab when I saw the Player was coming out I knew I was getting it and I relisted the Stage to sell by itself, the Kones are staying with me.

Quote from Enchilada_Jones

I’ve got the f12-x200 and built the cab Celestion have designed for that speaker.

I have a non powered Kemper cab and an extra Kone speaker in a Egnater Tweaker 1x12 cab.

I have the SD Powerstage 170 amp.that have used when trying out those cabs.

The Kone is far better when using the imprints in your Kemper device. It is better as a ‘full range’ speaker and not using the imprints instead letting the Rig supply the cab sim. I prefer the Kone with imprints but it does pretty good without them

The F12-x200 is better than most FRFR monitors I’ve tried but it does have a separate high frequency driver (tweeter) where the Kone is a coaxial speaker cone design and it makes a difference. The upper frequencies from the Kone are more like a ‘guitar speaker’ delivers and less shrill, harsh like a PA monitor delivers.

The Celestion F12M-150 is a tricone speaker and it is more like the Kone and rates right between the Kone and F12-x200 in my mind.

The Kemper Kone is probably one of the best things to happen to guitar speaker simulation. I was selling my Stage and Kemper cab when I saw the Player was coming out I knew I was getting it and I relisted the Stage to sell by itself, the Kones are staying with me.

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Thanks. I also have the powerstage that I use with my FX12-200. Sounds like I might need to pick up a kone.

Quote from mcr_100

Thanks. I also have the powerstage that I use with my FX12-200. Sounds like I might need to pick up a kone.

jensen n12D. Like the one I have for sale

Quote from Monkey_Man

2011 MacBook and 2012 Mac Pro and no "mobile" devices here.

Will I be able to use the Player with Rig Manager on these 'puters? They're both running MacOS 10.13.6 High Sierra.

Bear in mind that I'm not able to run a KAOS 10-compatible version of Rig Manager on this OS.

Thank you!

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I finally spent the money on an M3 MBP with M3 Pro chip. I had been limping along with a 2011 iMac (Core i7) and a 2012 Mini (also i7) until a few months ago. So I can relate.

You might consider checking out Open Core Legacy Patcher as an interim step until you can afford a new Mac. It will allow you to run any of the new Mac OS versions on unsupported Macs.

Ok, CK has been nothing but remarkable in his transparency. He didn't need to post anything at all. He could have left it to his employees. It is impressive for the owner of a company to post a reply to anything. It's a good thing that CK participates in threads here.

Next, over the break I have watched a few videos on the use of the new player. I would like to re-assess my criticism.

The Kemper Player is not the product I wanted. It is for a different market (my conclusion). I complained that the product should have only 3 foot switches and a decent sized color LCD. This would be the perfect product for ME as a backup unit for my Rack AND as a throw-and-go rig for small get togethers.

After watching several video's, the Kemper Player seems more aimed at someone that has the player on the desk in front of them vs on the floor playing a gig. In the "on-the-desk" mode of operation, suddenly all the physical controls make a great deal of sense.

I guess I will have to keep hoping for a different kind of Kemper product in this 3-button form factor. One that has:

1) Color LCD for managing rigs in a performance live (would still like to use performances as well)

2) Only foot switches as physical controls (maybe a master output knob)

Sadly, this seems like it is too close to the current product and Kemper has determined that the desktop usage model is more important than the stomp box model.

Ok, anyone sees where to actually change the midi channel on the player ? the manual says in system settings I can't find it